4 ms·

But consider the cost of power. For many people, especially Europeans, the power bill from running a gaming PC might be substantially higher than that of runnin

But consider the cost of power. For many people, especially Europeans, the power bill from running a gaming PC might be substantially higher than that of running a laptop + Stadia or GeForce Now monthly subscription.

amluto 4y ago
Which indicates that something is wrong with the residential electricity markets. Google should not be paying substantially less for marginal electricity than Google’s customers. (This is a major problem with California’s energy planning. On the one hand, CA (IMO fairly sensibly) wants users to switch from gas to electricity. On the other hand, CA’s electricity prices are so egregiously inflated that people have an economic incentive to switch from electricity to gas.)
- zeppelin101 4y ago
  > Which indicates that something is wrong with the residential electricity markets. Google should not be paying substantially less for marginal electricity than Google’s customers. In a more perfect world, that would be the case!
  - kjeetgill 4y ago
    Not at all. We want companies to leverage economies of scale. Efficiency should bring competitive advantage. Google often invests in datacenters in places based around where it's cheaper to power and run them, often owning the energy production. This is a good thing
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      Often using subsidies and tax advantages so whether it's cheaper overall for society will depend on the cost of these venefits.
    - amluto 4y ago
      But of limited value for a service like Stadia. Power may be cheaper 1000 miles away, but those 1000 miles cost latency.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Google have some datacenters with dedicated renewable power generation (e.g. Belgium) they set up themselves, so it makes sense sometimes their electricity is cheaper.
  - nightski 4y ago
    I'm not sure about in Europe, but in the U.S. at least a substantial portion of power generation is already from renewables. That doesn't really make it free, or necessarily even cheaper depending on the circumstances.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      It makes it cheaper for Google if they build it themselves for their DC than to buy at market rates such as they are today.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
throwaway5959 4y ago
Running a mini pc like the Minisforum UM560/UM580 at full tilt is equivalent to running an incandescent light bulb.
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  > equivalent to running an incandescent light bulb. ...which we also no longer have, exactly because they consume too much electricity compared to LEDs.
  - throwaway5959 4y ago
    Honestly if 60 watts is too much, I really hope you’re never getting in a car or on a plane for a holiday.
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      Your hope is validated! I'm one of the greenest, least energy-consuming people on Earth. I live next to a hydro plant with capacity to spare, don't eat meat, don't own a car, have no drivers license, never fly, and my last holiday I cycled 600km [1]. [1] https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08 https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08
morsch 4y ago
500W average power draw while running a game 2h average a day playing games 40c/kWh for power 30 * 0.4 * 2 * 0.5 = 12 EUR/month Stadia Pro was 10 EUR. So you're not wrong, though it's easily within the margin of error for this ballpark estimate (e.g. I wish I still had 14 hours a week for gaming; the power draw could be off by a factor of two in either direction, ...). And in winter, using power for computing is just a roundabout way of heating your living area, so in a way, it's free. I wonder if increased electricity costs were a factor in shutting down Stadia.

amluto 4y ago

Which indicates that something is wrong with the residential electricity markets. Google should not be paying substantially less for marginal electricity than Google’s customers. (This is a major problem with California’s energy planning. On the one hand, CA (IMO fairly sensibly) wants users to switch from gas to electricity. On the other hand, CA’s electricity prices are so egregiously inflated that people have an economic incentive to switch from electricity to gas.)

zeppelin101 4y ago
> Which indicates that something is wrong with the residential electricity markets. Google should not be paying substantially less for marginal electricity than Google’s customers. In a more perfect world, that would be the case!
- kjeetgill 4y ago
  Not at all. We want companies to leverage economies of scale. Efficiency should bring competitive advantage. Google often invests in datacenters in places based around where it's cheaper to power and run them, often owning the energy production. This is a good thing
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    Often using subsidies and tax advantages so whether it's cheaper overall for society will depend on the cost of these venefits.
  - amluto 4y ago
    But of limited value for a service like Stadia. Power may be cheaper 1000 miles away, but those 1000 miles cost latency.
sofixa 4y ago
Google have some datacenters with dedicated renewable power generation (e.g. Belgium) they set up themselves, so it makes sense sometimes their electricity is cheaper.
- nightski 4y ago
  I'm not sure about in Europe, but in the U.S. at least a substantial portion of power generation is already from renewables. That doesn't really make it free, or necessarily even cheaper depending on the circumstances.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    It makes it cheaper for Google if they build it themselves for their DC than to buy at market rates such as they are today.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

throwaway5959 4y ago

Running a mini pc like the Minisforum UM560/UM580 at full tilt is equivalent to running an incandescent light bulb.

hypertele-Xii 4y ago
> equivalent to running an incandescent light bulb. ...which we also no longer have, exactly because they consume too much electricity compared to LEDs.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  Honestly if 60 watts is too much, I really hope you’re never getting in a car or on a plane for a holiday.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    Your hope is validated! I'm one of the greenest, least energy-consuming people on Earth. I live next to a hydro plant with capacity to spare, don't eat meat, don't own a car, have no drivers license, never fly, and my last holiday I cycled 600km [1]. [1] https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08 https://hypertele.fi/fbd0998dd2834f08

morsch 4y ago

500W average power draw while running a game 2h average a day playing games 40c/kWh for power 30 * 0.4 * 2 * 0.5 = 12 EUR/month Stadia Pro was 10 EUR. So you're not wrong, though it's easily within the margin of error for this ballpark estimate (e.g. I wish I still had 14 hours a week for gaming; the power draw could be off by a factor of two in either direction, ...). And in winter, using power for computing is just a roundabout way of heating your living area, so in a way, it's free. I wonder if increased electricity costs were a factor in shutting down Stadia.