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> So two clicks to turn on wifi How would you communicate with the router without an ethernet connection to it? Remember, WiFi is off by default. At that poi

by jorvi 4y ago

> So two clicks to turn on wifi How would you communicate with the router without an ethernet connection to it? Remember, WiFi is off by default. At that point you're probably gonna have to do some serial or JTAG magic, which is gonna involve physically breaking open the router and soldering. So much for 'two clicks'.

naasking 4y ago
> How would you communicate with the router without an ethernet connection to it? Using the Ethernet port is exactly what I'm suggesting. This is far simpler than using the serial number as the wifi password, and more secure than a universal password. Furthermore, there are legal liabilities involved with the wifi spectrum. Different countries reserve different bands in the spectrum and have different limits on transmission power. OpenWRT would have to provide different builds for different countries, maintain and validate this list and risk making costly legal mistakes here, or if there's some lowest common denominator, then risk giving OpenWRT getting a reputation for bad wifi. No, best to let the user accept the liability of configuring their own router. The improvements in usability are marginal and the potential costs to OpenWRT are considerable.
- jorvi 4y ago
  > Furthermore, there are legal liabilities involved with the wifi spectrum. OpenWRT is already ‘exposed’ (not really) to this risk, because as soon as you flip the radio to ‘on’, it’s just set to the default, not your specific region. > The improvements in usability are marginal and the potential costs to OpenWRT are considerable. And here we have it, the exact attitude the OP was talking about. Open source needs to become more considerate of its users.
  - naasking 4y ago
    > OpenWRT is already ‘exposed’ (not really) to this risk, because as soon as you flip the radio to ‘on’, it’s just set to the default, not your specific region. The radio does not turn on unless you tell it to by saving your configuration. That's where the liability lies and that liability falls on the user at present. Placing it on the project is not acceptable. > And here we have it, the exact attitude the OP was talking about. Open source needs to become more considerate of its users. Inapplicable when the attitude exists for a good reason. Users can go elsewhere for free stuff if they're not happy with it.
    - jorvi 4y ago
      > Placing it on the project is not acceptable. The liability isn't on the project regardless. > Users can go elsewhere for free stuff if they're not happy with it. You're literally a 'why open source keeps sucking' quote machine.
      - naasking 4y ago
        > The liability isn't on the project regardless. OK random person on the internet whose word I should accept on a subtle legal question. Tools that assist in violating the law are often themselves classed as illegal or carry liability for the producers. For instance, tools that assist in bypassing copyright protections, and tools that assist in breaking locks to name but a few. Go ahead and quote me some rock solid precedent that would shield OpenWRT from any kind of liability if they wifi enabled distributed images with illegal configurations. A precedent that would apply in every jurisdiction mind you. > You're literally a 'why open source keeps sucking' quote machine. You made your case, the people actually doing the work clearly disagreed, so time to move on. Use your own time to make your perfect solution if it's that important to you, instead of demanding others do the same. OpenWRT already provides the image builder, so all you technically need to do is host it: https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/additional-software/imagebuilder https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/additional-software/imag... Best of luck with that.
        jorvi 4y ago

by jorvi 4y ago

naasking 4y ago

> How would you communicate with the router without an ethernet connection to it? Using the Ethernet port is exactly what I'm suggesting. This is far simpler than using the serial number as the wifi password, and more secure than a universal password. Furthermore, there are legal liabilities involved with the wifi spectrum. Different countries reserve different bands in the spectrum and have different limits on transmission power. OpenWRT would have to provide different builds for different countries, maintain and validate this list and risk making costly legal mistakes here, or if there's some lowest common denominator, then risk giving OpenWRT getting a reputation for bad wifi. No, best to let the user accept the liability of configuring their own router. The improvements in usability are marginal and the potential costs to OpenWRT are considerable.

jorvi 4y ago
> Furthermore, there are legal liabilities involved with the wifi spectrum. OpenWRT is already ‘exposed’ (not really) to this risk, because as soon as you flip the radio to ‘on’, it’s just set to the default, not your specific region. > The improvements in usability are marginal and the potential costs to OpenWRT are considerable. And here we have it, the exact attitude the OP was talking about. Open source needs to become more considerate of its users.
- naasking 4y ago
  > OpenWRT is already ‘exposed’ (not really) to this risk, because as soon as you flip the radio to ‘on’, it’s just set to the default, not your specific region. The radio does not turn on unless you tell it to by saving your configuration. That's where the liability lies and that liability falls on the user at present. Placing it on the project is not acceptable. > And here we have it, the exact attitude the OP was talking about. Open source needs to become more considerate of its users. Inapplicable when the attitude exists for a good reason. Users can go elsewhere for free stuff if they're not happy with it.
  - jorvi 4y ago
    > Placing it on the project is not acceptable. The liability isn't on the project regardless. > Users can go elsewhere for free stuff if they're not happy with it. You're literally a 'why open source keeps sucking' quote machine.
    - naasking 4y ago
      > The liability isn't on the project regardless. OK random person on the internet whose word I should accept on a subtle legal question. Tools that assist in violating the law are often themselves classed as illegal or carry liability for the producers. For instance, tools that assist in bypassing copyright protections, and tools that assist in breaking locks to name but a few. Go ahead and quote me some rock solid precedent that would shield OpenWRT from any kind of liability if they wifi enabled distributed images with illegal configurations. A precedent that would apply in every jurisdiction mind you. > You're literally a 'why open source keeps sucking' quote machine. You made your case, the people actually doing the work clearly disagreed, so time to move on. Use your own time to make your perfect solution if it's that important to you, instead of demanding others do the same. OpenWRT already provides the image builder, so all you technically need to do is host it: https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/additional-software/imagebuilder https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/additional-software/imag... Best of luck with that.
      - jorvi 4y ago