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Once one realizes that tolerance follows the model of a peace treaty rather than a moral precept, these apparent dilemmas resolve themselves. Treaties only prot

Once one realizes that tolerance follows the model of a peace treaty rather than a moral precept, these apparent dilemmas resolve themselves. Treaties only protect parties who abide by their terms. There is no contradiction in being intolerant of intolerance.

ianai 4y ago
I think this is a pivot society ought to make in a larger extent very soon. Applies to things like “nuclear extortion” ala Russian in Ukraine too.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  I am becoming more sympathetic to this, too. Real liberals (not necessarily leftists, although perhaps so) need to start punching back, hard. Slippery slopes are real and we're on one.
  - ianai 4y ago
    To reinforce the peace treaty of civil society everyone needs to push back against these “defections from peace.” It’s social contract stuff, too. The alternative looks like a replay of all the worst stuff from social repression to actual nuclear war-given the misinformation propping up the Russian invasion of Ukraine and nuclear threats.
  - DuskStar 4y ago
    > Real liberals (not necessarily leftists, although perhaps so) Leftists are 100% part of the problem here in the US, I'm not sure what you would need to be smoking to think otherwise.
naasking 4y ago
> There is no contradiction in being intolerant of intolerance. There is, because literally every viewpoint is an implicit repudiation of some set of values, ie. aka intolerance. The whole point of tolerance is the recognition of this fact and that resolving such differences requires dialogue (edit: resolving them without violence that is). As Popper said, only those views that directly incite violence or cannot be kept in check by public opinion should be silenced, otherwise you put the whole enterprise of tolerance in jeopardy.
- bluescrn 4y ago
  > As Popper said, only those views that directly incite violence or cannot be kept in check by public opinion should be silenced But these days, it's become commonplace to equate words (or sometimes even silence) with violence.
  - naasking 4y ago
    Indeed, because tolerance has been a long held liberal value, and usurping it was a great way to push a more aggressive agenda.

ianai 4y ago

I think this is a pivot society ought to make in a larger extent very soon. Applies to things like “nuclear extortion” ala Russian in Ukraine too.

hackerlight 4y ago
I am becoming more sympathetic to this, too. Real liberals (not necessarily leftists, although perhaps so) need to start punching back, hard. Slippery slopes are real and we're on one.
- ianai 4y ago
  To reinforce the peace treaty of civil society everyone needs to push back against these “defections from peace.” It’s social contract stuff, too. The alternative looks like a replay of all the worst stuff from social repression to actual nuclear war-given the misinformation propping up the Russian invasion of Ukraine and nuclear threats.
- DuskStar 4y ago
  > Real liberals (not necessarily leftists, although perhaps so) Leftists are 100% part of the problem here in the US, I'm not sure what you would need to be smoking to think otherwise.

naasking 4y ago

> There is no contradiction in being intolerant of intolerance. There is, because literally every viewpoint is an implicit repudiation of some set of values, ie. aka intolerance. The whole point of tolerance is the recognition of this fact and that resolving such differences requires dialogue (edit: resolving them without violence that is). As Popper said, only those views that directly incite violence or cannot be kept in check by public opinion should be silenced, otherwise you put the whole enterprise of tolerance in jeopardy.

bluescrn 4y ago
> As Popper said, only those views that directly incite violence or cannot be kept in check by public opinion should be silenced But these days, it's become commonplace to equate words (or sometimes even silence) with violence.
- naasking 4y ago
  Indeed, because tolerance has been a long held liberal value, and usurping it was a great way to push a more aggressive agenda.