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Among the Europeans I know, the NHS is considered a laughing stock, and they find it absurd how much national pride there is for it. A move towards a European s

Among the Europeans I know, the NHS is considered a laughing stock, and they find it absurd how much national pride there is for it. A move towards a European system like Germany’s would likely have significant positive outcomes. In the UK, you can barely see a GP in a week; in Germany you can see a specialist in days. There’s a spending disparity but it’s not big enough to explain the difference in outcomes IMO. Unfortunately this country is completely unwilling to have any kind of discussion about NHS reform.

_Microft 4y ago
> in Germany you can see a specialist in days. Well, there is actually a shortage in specialists here but it is true that you can see a specialist in days at least if it is acute/urgent. (Usually your general practioner will give you a letter of referral and leave it to you to make an appointment but in urgent cases they might actually call a qualified colleague to make sure you get that appointment soon).
dijit 4y ago
Literally just (Friday) had a discussion with my German colleague who passed a kidney stone on the day before (Thursday) in Germany. All was fine until it came to the topic of his health insurance card: see, on the Thursday he was taken to the hospital they kept his health insurance card. When he went to his actual doctor the morning after they wouldn’t even talk to him unless he had it and getting it back from the people who took him to the hospital was taking too long; so he started the long and drawn out process of getting a temporary bit of paper mailed to his address from his insurance company stating that he had insurance. The NHS, for all its faults and the weight of its underfunding: would never have a problem like that.
- _Microft 4y ago
  > so he started the long and drawn out process of getting a temporary bit of paper mailed to his address from his insurance company stating that he had insurance. It happened to me that I saw a doctor and had forgotten to bring my health insurance card. I was then required to show it within (I think) ten days or be charged the cost of the visit myself. All it took to fix that later that day was to log into the website of my health insurer, download said document as pdf and mail it to the doctor's office. It might not be as simple as you might like but it does not have to be as bad as their experience was.
  - dijit 4y ago
    Interesting, he said that basically they weren’t interested in talking to him at all until he produced the card. Of course I’m not a primary source, so the actual interaction may have been different.
- cagataygurturk 4y ago
  I feel your friend little bit exaggerated the situation or simply had bad luck. The staff of the doctor you usually go knows you and don‘t ask your statuary health insurance card upon each visit. They have it in your file. Worst case you present a paper you download from your insurance provider‘s website. As a last resort, you declare you are privately insured and you walk out. They send the invoice to home and you send it to your insurer or pay from your pocket. A simple GP visit does not cost more than 40-50 Euros. People are helpful. Maybe the staff of their doctor was not that day.
analog31 4y ago
Does that mean seeing a GP for anything? Here in Wisconsin you can walk into an "urgent care" clinic if you're insured, and be seen by the doctor on staff right away. But appointments with an actual date and time are typically booked out several weeks. Likewise for any kind of specialist or an MRI.
DanBC 4y ago
Germany spends quite a lot more than England. Depends how you measure (per capita there's a big difference; percentage of GDP the difference is smaller). Another thing that's really affecting the English NHS at the moment is Brexit - it's making it very difficult to recruit and retain staff, which has pushed up staff costs because of the spend on locum doctors and agency nursing staff. But, really, the main problem is 12 years of a Conservative government that does not believe in tax-funded public services. Cameron and May were bad, but Johnson and Truss have been catastrophic for the NHS.

_Microft 4y ago

> in Germany you can see a specialist in days. Well, there is actually a shortage in specialists here but it is true that you can see a specialist in days at least if it is acute/urgent. (Usually your general practioner will give you a letter of referral and leave it to you to make an appointment but in urgent cases they might actually call a qualified colleague to make sure you get that appointment soon).

dijit 4y ago

Literally just (Friday) had a discussion with my German colleague who passed a kidney stone on the day before (Thursday) in Germany. All was fine until it came to the topic of his health insurance card: see, on the Thursday he was taken to the hospital they kept his health insurance card. When he went to his actual doctor the morning after they wouldn’t even talk to him unless he had it and getting it back from the people who took him to the hospital was taking too long; so he started the long and drawn out process of getting a temporary bit of paper mailed to his address from his insurance company stating that he had insurance. The NHS, for all its faults and the weight of its underfunding: would never have a problem like that.

_Microft 4y ago
> so he started the long and drawn out process of getting a temporary bit of paper mailed to his address from his insurance company stating that he had insurance. It happened to me that I saw a doctor and had forgotten to bring my health insurance card. I was then required to show it within (I think) ten days or be charged the cost of the visit myself. All it took to fix that later that day was to log into the website of my health insurer, download said document as pdf and mail it to the doctor's office. It might not be as simple as you might like but it does not have to be as bad as their experience was.
- dijit 4y ago
  Interesting, he said that basically they weren’t interested in talking to him at all until he produced the card. Of course I’m not a primary source, so the actual interaction may have been different.
cagataygurturk 4y ago
I feel your friend little bit exaggerated the situation or simply had bad luck. The staff of the doctor you usually go knows you and don‘t ask your statuary health insurance card upon each visit. They have it in your file. Worst case you present a paper you download from your insurance provider‘s website. As a last resort, you declare you are privately insured and you walk out. They send the invoice to home and you send it to your insurer or pay from your pocket. A simple GP visit does not cost more than 40-50 Euros. People are helpful. Maybe the staff of their doctor was not that day.

analog31 4y ago

Does that mean seeing a GP for anything? Here in Wisconsin you can walk into an "urgent care" clinic if you're insured, and be seen by the doctor on staff right away. But appointments with an actual date and time are typically booked out several weeks. Likewise for any kind of specialist or an MRI.

DanBC 4y ago

Germany spends quite a lot more than England. Depends how you measure (per capita there's a big difference; percentage of GDP the difference is smaller). Another thing that's really affecting the English NHS at the moment is Brexit - it's making it very difficult to recruit and retain staff, which has pushed up staff costs because of the spend on locum doctors and agency nursing staff. But, really, the main problem is 12 years of a Conservative government that does not believe in tax-funded public services. Cameron and May were bad, but Johnson and Truss have been catastrophic for the NHS.