6 ms·

I really don't get all the critique of the Tesla bot. Yes, it isn't even close to a finished product. But it isn't meant to be. Not yet. But it is the developme

by _ph_ 4y ago

I really don't get all the critique of the Tesla bot. Yes, it isn't even close to a finished product. But it isn't meant to be. Not yet. But it is the development platform for an upcoming product. And like with software production, there is nothing as valuable as a working prototype which you can use to test all the aspects of the ongoing development. They also showed the second generation robot, with a lot of improvements. Most of all, in house designed actuators which are fit for industrial production. Because that is the goal for Tesla: to eventually sell it. In numbers, at a reasonable price. Part of the purpose of the event was to attract new developers. So any of the Ph.Ds who think they can do better: apply at Tesla! Also the comments about the finger count were revealing. They don't grasp the ambition of Tesla. They are not trying to quickly get a new warehouse robot to the market, their end-game is the fully humanoid robot. That means 5 fingers. And a real AI for guiding the actions. Like with FSD, Tesla is betting big time that they can get reasonably close.

V__ 4y ago
The goal is to tingle the next shiny thing in front of investors to somehow keep the stock evaluation.
DoesntMatter22 4y ago
It's such a silly complaint. They've only had a working model for 6 months. Boston dynamics been at it 30 years almost. Also Tesla bot doesn't ever need to do backflips so they are closer than ppl realize already
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  > They've only had a working model for 6 months. Why should I take that into account? This isn't school.
  - mwint 4y ago
    Velocity is relevant.
    - iudqnolq 4y ago
      Let's discuss it then, then. Velocity at outliers has little explanatory value.
  - DoesntMatter22 4y ago
    What does school have to do with anything? In a short time they have made tremendous progress which will obviously only continue.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  The Tesla bot was wheeled out on stage by three people, because the team wasn't sure if it could walk on its own. Meanwhile, Boston Dynamics bot is doing backflips, and Disney's superhero bot is doing stunts for it's movies / theme parks live. Tesla bot can't even walk, but there are two robotics groups (Disney Theme parks and Boston Dynamics) who were ahead years ago. -------- If you wanna impress people who have been looking at bots for the last 10 years, you have to at least have the thing walk out on stage on its own feet.
  - _ph_ 4y ago
    No, it wasn't. That was the second gen bot which isn't fully operational yet. The first gen model walked onto the stage without support.
  - DoesntMatter22 4y ago
    So you clearly didn't watch it at all because that's exactly what it did.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  But Boston dynamics didn't show it to the public until a few years ago when it was good. It's not like we were all seeing Boston dynamics videos of their robots sucking 30 years ago, as Musk is doing.
  - mumumu 4y ago
    Not true. Someone on reddit made a compilation of BD videos, with the first dating about 30 years. I'm on mobile, try searching "30 years Boston Dynamics" on reddit.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Where did they release these videos at the time? YouTube didn't exist, the tech to distribute video on the internet didn't exist at the time period. I suspect that these videos you refer to were made after the fact from "home videos".
  - DoesntMatter22 4y ago
    That's just not true they have been showing videos at all steps along the way, from WAY before they were at the level that the Tesla bot is now
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Showing videos /= what Tesla did with this press release event.
      - DoesntMatter22 4y ago
        So now your are complaining they did a demo? That is just silly. "It's wrong to do a demo" basically lol
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        I'm not saying it was wrong, he can do whatever he wants. I am saying that it shows he is not longer a legit tech leader, he's a seller of hype.
dragontamer 4y ago
> So any of the Ph.Ds who think they can do better: apply at Tesla! Why not Boston Dynamics, who are clearly much further in this process and have much more expertise? There's Boston Dynamics "Spot" that's clearing mines in Ukraine right now. How long will it be before this Tesla-bot can do what Spot does today? Why would a Ph.D join a group with only a few months of experience, when a true expert is making revolutionary robots exists elsewhere? Ph.D want to learn from others, not be the smartest person in the room. ------- Lets look at a 2018-era (4 years ago) demo from Spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXxrmussq4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXxrmussq4E Spot, years ago, could open a door by itself. How long before the Tesla-bot can do that? Why would any Ph.D want to be working on an already solved problem (solved years ago by Boston Dynamics), when they could just join Boston Dynamics and learn from the experts directly?
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Or Honda, they already made one of these, and did it well. Then they canned the project because there is no commercial value. There is no need for a humanoid robot, a regular wheeled one will do and is 10% of the cost.
  - neither_color 4y ago
    Boston Dynamics clearly has talent but it doesn't seem they've found that market fit yet. Softbank and Google both sold Boston Dynamics. It's not some scrappy startup, it's on its third multinational acquisition by now.
- aaron695 4y ago
- JediLuke 4y ago
- panick21_ 4y ago
  This is kind of an absurd premise? There are not that many companies working on this kind of Robotics, are you seriously suggest all US talent in the field should go to Boston Dynamics? Boston Dynamics simply has a different focus. They focus is not mass production of humanoid robots for everyday use. Their primary concern is not using their mass manufacture and self driving expertise to mass produce robots. Tesla is expert in electronics and their robot is driven by electric actuators while Boston Dynamics seems to use a lot of hydraulics. Hydraulics are like better in some ways but also likely harder to mass produce. Multiple companies working on these topics is a good thing in my opinion. > Ph.D want to learn from others, not be the smartest person in the room. If Tesla has the funding to heir people, do research and build many robots then what's the issue? You don't get people with experience and you don't get teams with experience unless you start building things. I'm sure there are people who would like an opportunity to be in a leading position in such a project. Even when in theory there are other projects that are 'more advanced'.
lm28469 4y ago
The thing is of all the things Musk promised over the last decade literally nothing happened. Remember the fully autonomous vehicle "by next year" in 2013 ? The boring company solving your commute issues by 2020 ? The 500 000 first fully autonomous tesla S of 2020 that were supposed to be sold to uber ? The cyber truck which is "just around the corner" ? This guy is selling dreams, I can guarantee you in 10 years we still won't have fully autonomous teslas, anything close to a proper robot or underground highways made by the boring company other than a few demos to milk the last investors who still believe in him
- uup 4y ago
  I agree that it’d be nice if he could deliver on more of his promises, but selling dreams is basically the job of upper management. Also, most other companies promise really mundane and uninteresting things. Sure, they deliver, but it’s still not much fun.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    > but selling dreams is basically the job of upper management. And evaluating the dreams and funding them is the job of investors. Just following the hype betrays your own money, your own agency, and possibly makes the world a worse place. (The Hyperloop myth has only served to hamper high-speed rail adoption) We all know this is a big advertisement for Tesla's stock, and maybe advertisements for workers to join Tesla. Now we can discuss if its worthwhile for shareholders and/or engineers to consider what was seen here.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      > The Hyperloop myth has only served to hamper high-speed rail adoption One guy wrote a badly sourced article claiming this and now its a proven fact. Its total nonsense. Even if you believe that Hyperloop was some 4D chess against HDR (and it wasn't) then its still insane to suggest it has anything to do with the problems of HSR. The HSR project started in the 90s and has been struggling the whole time. Blaming a few statements by Musk made in 2014 that 99% of the population no nothing about is delusional. HSR funding wasn't cut because of Hyperloop. Literally no California government action happened because of Hyperloop. I seriously think you are letting your dislike for Musk overwhelm basic logic.

by _ph_ 4y ago

V__ 4y ago

The goal is to tingle the next shiny thing in front of investors to somehow keep the stock evaluation.

DoesntMatter22 4y ago

It's such a silly complaint. They've only had a working model for 6 months. Boston dynamics been at it 30 years almost. Also Tesla bot doesn't ever need to do backflips so they are closer than ppl realize already

iudqnolq 4y ago
> They've only had a working model for 6 months. Why should I take that into account? This isn't school.
- mwint 4y ago
  Velocity is relevant.
  - iudqnolq 4y ago
    Let's discuss it then, then. Velocity at outliers has little explanatory value.
- DoesntMatter22 4y ago
  What does school have to do with anything? In a short time they have made tremendous progress which will obviously only continue.
dragontamer 4y ago
The Tesla bot was wheeled out on stage by three people, because the team wasn't sure if it could walk on its own. Meanwhile, Boston Dynamics bot is doing backflips, and Disney's superhero bot is doing stunts for it's movies / theme parks live. Tesla bot can't even walk, but there are two robotics groups (Disney Theme parks and Boston Dynamics) who were ahead years ago. -------- If you wanna impress people who have been looking at bots for the last 10 years, you have to at least have the thing walk out on stage on its own feet.
- _ph_ 4y ago
  No, it wasn't. That was the second gen bot which isn't fully operational yet. The first gen model walked onto the stage without support.
- DoesntMatter22 4y ago
  So you clearly didn't watch it at all because that's exactly what it did.
iancmceachern 4y ago
But Boston dynamics didn't show it to the public until a few years ago when it was good. It's not like we were all seeing Boston dynamics videos of their robots sucking 30 years ago, as Musk is doing.
- mumumu 4y ago
  Not true. Someone on reddit made a compilation of BD videos, with the first dating about 30 years. I'm on mobile, try searching "30 years Boston Dynamics" on reddit.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Where did they release these videos at the time? YouTube didn't exist, the tech to distribute video on the internet didn't exist at the time period. I suspect that these videos you refer to were made after the fact from "home videos".
- DoesntMatter22 4y ago
  That's just not true they have been showing videos at all steps along the way, from WAY before they were at the level that the Tesla bot is now
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Showing videos /= what Tesla did with this press release event.
    - DoesntMatter22 4y ago
      So now your are complaining they did a demo? That is just silly. "It's wrong to do a demo" basically lol
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        I'm not saying it was wrong, he can do whatever he wants. I am saying that it shows he is not longer a legit tech leader, he's a seller of hype.

dragontamer 4y ago

> So any of the Ph.Ds who think they can do better: apply at Tesla! Why not Boston Dynamics, who are clearly much further in this process and have much more expertise? There's Boston Dynamics "Spot" that's clearing mines in Ukraine right now. How long will it be before this Tesla-bot can do what Spot does today? Why would a Ph.D join a group with only a few months of experience, when a true expert is making revolutionary robots exists elsewhere? Ph.D want to learn from others, not be the smartest person in the room. ------- Lets look at a 2018-era (4 years ago) demo from Spot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXxrmussq4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXxrmussq4E Spot, years ago, could open a door by itself. How long before the Tesla-bot can do that? Why would any Ph.D want to be working on an already solved problem (solved years ago by Boston Dynamics), when they could just join Boston Dynamics and learn from the experts directly?

iancmceachern 4y ago
Or Honda, they already made one of these, and did it well. Then they canned the project because there is no commercial value. There is no need for a humanoid robot, a regular wheeled one will do and is 10% of the cost.
- neither_color 4y ago
  Boston Dynamics clearly has talent but it doesn't seem they've found that market fit yet. Softbank and Google both sold Boston Dynamics. It's not some scrappy startup, it's on its third multinational acquisition by now.
aaron695 4y ago
JediLuke 4y ago
panick21_ 4y ago
This is kind of an absurd premise? There are not that many companies working on this kind of Robotics, are you seriously suggest all US talent in the field should go to Boston Dynamics? Boston Dynamics simply has a different focus. They focus is not mass production of humanoid robots for everyday use. Their primary concern is not using their mass manufacture and self driving expertise to mass produce robots. Tesla is expert in electronics and their robot is driven by electric actuators while Boston Dynamics seems to use a lot of hydraulics. Hydraulics are like better in some ways but also likely harder to mass produce. Multiple companies working on these topics is a good thing in my opinion. > Ph.D want to learn from others, not be the smartest person in the room. If Tesla has the funding to heir people, do research and build many robots then what's the issue? You don't get people with experience and you don't get teams with experience unless you start building things. I'm sure there are people who would like an opportunity to be in a leading position in such a project. Even when in theory there are other projects that are 'more advanced'.

lm28469 4y ago

The thing is of all the things Musk promised over the last decade literally nothing happened. Remember the fully autonomous vehicle "by next year" in 2013 ? The boring company solving your commute issues by 2020 ? The 500 000 first fully autonomous tesla S of 2020 that were supposed to be sold to uber ? The cyber truck which is "just around the corner" ? This guy is selling dreams, I can guarantee you in 10 years we still won't have fully autonomous teslas, anything close to a proper robot or underground highways made by the boring company other than a few demos to milk the last investors who still believe in him

uup 4y ago
I agree that it’d be nice if he could deliver on more of his promises, but selling dreams is basically the job of upper management. Also, most other companies promise really mundane and uninteresting things. Sure, they deliver, but it’s still not much fun.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > but selling dreams is basically the job of upper management. And evaluating the dreams and funding them is the job of investors. Just following the hype betrays your own money, your own agency, and possibly makes the world a worse place. (The Hyperloop myth has only served to hamper high-speed rail adoption) We all know this is a big advertisement for Tesla's stock, and maybe advertisements for workers to join Tesla. Now we can discuss if its worthwhile for shareholders and/or engineers to consider what was seen here.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    > The Hyperloop myth has only served to hamper high-speed rail adoption One guy wrote a badly sourced article claiming this and now its a proven fact. Its total nonsense. Even if you believe that Hyperloop was some 4D chess against HDR (and it wasn't) then its still insane to suggest it has anything to do with the problems of HSR. The HSR project started in the 90s and has been struggling the whole time. Blaming a few statements by Musk made in 2014 that 99% of the population no nothing about is delusional. HSR funding wasn't cut because of Hyperloop. Literally no California government action happened because of Hyperloop. I seriously think you are letting your dislike for Musk overwhelm basic logic.