5 ms·

Wouldn’t the solution be to seek more of the rewarding parts of programming and re-evaluating exactly how destructive to your mental health working in that “pro

by hrbf 4y ago

Wouldn’t the solution be to seek more of the rewarding parts of programming and re-evaluating exactly how destructive to your mental health working in that “professional” environment really is?

F2hP18Foam 4y ago
I agree with you, but it's easier said than done. Especially if you're already depressed, drudging forward can seem like the path of least resistance, even though it often isn't.
- hrbf 4y ago
  No doubt. Depression is debilitating in so many subtle as well as visible ways. As parent is currently the most-upvoted comment, I believe it important to ask the obvious questions to maybe start a conversation.
nicbou 4y ago
People have bills to pay, and programming is one of the more acceptable ways to do it.
- hrbf 4y ago
  That’s a superficial argument. Is permanently exposing yourself to a level of emotional stress that results in a semi-permanent depressive state really worth the money? I’d argue that if you have the skills to code, you are well suited for other areas as well, depending on your willingness to adapt. If you’re already depressed it’s harder to see alternatives and easier to feel trapped though.
  - tartoran 4y ago
    > I’d argue that if you have the skills to code, you are well suited for other areas as well, depending on your willingness to adapt. Could you please state what those are?
    - hansel_der 4y ago
      struggling with this question as well. obiously it is highly dependent on the individual, but in the end, it depends on the boss making/getting the connection and not be like "nah, but i relly could need an IT guy"
    - hrbf 4y ago
      If you code at a professional level, you are likely of above average intelligence. You are able to efficiently reason about complex systems to some degree. Those two skills alone qualify you for many jobs, especially when you’re willing to learn. What those are depends entirely on your interests and further skills. Often, looking into a completely different direction is helpful. Ask yourself what you enjoy doing, apart from programming and computers. It could be cooking, gardening, talking to people, writing, teaching, whatever. Something that is not stressful for you to do. Something your friends maybe told you at one time or the other you’re good at without having to put great effort in it. Something that doesn’t drain you if you’re doing it for extended periods of time. Often that’s where you can find what’s truly important to you and your inherent skills are. Go from there. Let yourself be inspired. Those could be technical or entirely apart from what you’re currently doing. When you start looking into unconventional jobs, you’ll be astonished what kind of work exists within reach. It often just looks like it isn’t because you’d have to leave your comfort zone to pursue them. That’s the issue with comfort zones: even if you feel like shit, it’s a familiar feeling. As humans, we tend to go with what we know, even if it leads to constantly feeling terrible. This way, we can at least make sense of what surrounds us. Going into the unknown is scary, sometimes it feels like mortal danger. If you can afford it, take a sabbatical to clear your head. If you have a partner, talk to them about what you’re going through.
      - throwaway1649 4y ago
        I appreciate that you're exhorting people to take some initiative to find alternatives to misery. Your contribution is a positive one. So I support that, good job. I apologize in advance for the lack of positivity in the rest of my reply. But, for me at least, the problem is that the evidence seems to indicate that, in my life at least, you're super wrong. Sure, okay, I'm of above-average intelligence, and able to efficiently reason about complex systems to some degree. It turns out that, although necessary for a great many jobs, they do not alone qualify me for those jobs. I think I'm willing to learn, but sometimes it seems that I'm not particularly able. I did software for most of a decade, including getting a visa to work in Silicon Valley, and it beat me up pretty bad. I like teaching, by which I mean one-on-one conversations or giving lectures, so I have mostly been pursuing that as a career for most of a decade. And it turns out that the job of teaching involves a lot of things other than the act of teaching, and those other things are way worse than software ever was. So now I'm just as miserable, for half as much money. Though at least I DO get to spend about 6 hours of paid time a week doing teaching-the-act, and that's nice. And because I'm so hilariously poorly-paid, I have job security, because every time they look for new hires, almost everyone who applies is obviously incapable, because you have to be a fool to take this job, so that's nice too. I do think it's worth it for people who feel miserable to try to figure out how to be not-miserable. But as a related comment says, I enjoy food and shelter. At this point I'm torn between the known misery-and-low-pay-but-job-security of teaching, vs throwing myself back into the meat grinder of software development, knowing I'll make twice the money for less hours worked, but probably I'll get abused and fired again. Is that a superficial argument?
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    >Is permanently exposing yourself to a level of emotional stress that results in a semi-permanent depressive state really worth the money? Yes.
    - hrbf 4y ago
      Why?
      - Hamuko 4y ago
        I enjoy food and shelter.
      - no_time 4y ago
        I feel like Bender from Futurama. He was made with one job in mind: Bending. Its exceptionlly well paying considering I have no formal qualifications or the patience to get any. These two facts are enough for me to not even entertain the idea of leaving IT in general.
      - _Algernon_ 4y ago
        The emotional stress of not having food and shelter is worse?
      - nicbou 4y ago
        These bootstraps don't provide the leverage you think they do. Changing careers is hard and most of them come with their own flavour of bullshit. Some people have dependents and can't afford to turn the whole ship halfway through their journey.
        hrbf 4y ago
        Hey, if you’re committed to find specific examples where general ones don’t work, you’re certainly going to find an endless supply of them. I cannot, will not and never have claimed to be able to provide concrete help for individual situations. In the end you’re entirely free to choose your own way, whatever that may be. I guess it’s just that knowingly choosing permanent depression in exchange for perceived financial stability is an unfathomable proposition for me.

by hrbf 4y ago

Wouldn’t the solution be to seek more of the rewarding parts of programming and re-evaluating exactly how destructive to your mental health working in that “professional” environment really is?

F2hP18Foam 4y ago

I agree with you, but it's easier said than done. Especially if you're already depressed, drudging forward can seem like the path of least resistance, even though it often isn't.

hrbf 4y ago
No doubt. Depression is debilitating in so many subtle as well as visible ways. As parent is currently the most-upvoted comment, I believe it important to ask the obvious questions to maybe start a conversation.

nicbou 4y ago

People have bills to pay, and programming is one of the more acceptable ways to do it.

hrbf 4y ago
That’s a superficial argument. Is permanently exposing yourself to a level of emotional stress that results in a semi-permanent depressive state really worth the money? I’d argue that if you have the skills to code, you are well suited for other areas as well, depending on your willingness to adapt. If you’re already depressed it’s harder to see alternatives and easier to feel trapped though.
- tartoran 4y ago
  > I’d argue that if you have the skills to code, you are well suited for other areas as well, depending on your willingness to adapt. Could you please state what those are?
  - hansel_der 4y ago
    struggling with this question as well. obiously it is highly dependent on the individual, but in the end, it depends on the boss making/getting the connection and not be like "nah, but i relly could need an IT guy"
  - hrbf 4y ago
    If you code at a professional level, you are likely of above average intelligence. You are able to efficiently reason about complex systems to some degree. Those two skills alone qualify you for many jobs, especially when you’re willing to learn. What those are depends entirely on your interests and further skills. Often, looking into a completely different direction is helpful. Ask yourself what you enjoy doing, apart from programming and computers. It could be cooking, gardening, talking to people, writing, teaching, whatever. Something that is not stressful for you to do. Something your friends maybe told you at one time or the other you’re good at without having to put great effort in it. Something that doesn’t drain you if you’re doing it for extended periods of time. Often that’s where you can find what’s truly important to you and your inherent skills are. Go from there. Let yourself be inspired. Those could be technical or entirely apart from what you’re currently doing. When you start looking into unconventional jobs, you’ll be astonished what kind of work exists within reach. It often just looks like it isn’t because you’d have to leave your comfort zone to pursue them. That’s the issue with comfort zones: even if you feel like shit, it’s a familiar feeling. As humans, we tend to go with what we know, even if it leads to constantly feeling terrible. This way, we can at least make sense of what surrounds us. Going into the unknown is scary, sometimes it feels like mortal danger. If you can afford it, take a sabbatical to clear your head. If you have a partner, talk to them about what you’re going through.
    - throwaway1649 4y ago
      I appreciate that you're exhorting people to take some initiative to find alternatives to misery. Your contribution is a positive one. So I support that, good job. I apologize in advance for the lack of positivity in the rest of my reply. But, for me at least, the problem is that the evidence seems to indicate that, in my life at least, you're super wrong. Sure, okay, I'm of above-average intelligence, and able to efficiently reason about complex systems to some degree. It turns out that, although necessary for a great many jobs, they do not alone qualify me for those jobs. I think I'm willing to learn, but sometimes it seems that I'm not particularly able. I did software for most of a decade, including getting a visa to work in Silicon Valley, and it beat me up pretty bad. I like teaching, by which I mean one-on-one conversations or giving lectures, so I have mostly been pursuing that as a career for most of a decade. And it turns out that the job of teaching involves a lot of things other than the act of teaching, and those other things are way worse than software ever was. So now I'm just as miserable, for half as much money. Though at least I DO get to spend about 6 hours of paid time a week doing teaching-the-act, and that's nice. And because I'm so hilariously poorly-paid, I have job security, because every time they look for new hires, almost everyone who applies is obviously incapable, because you have to be a fool to take this job, so that's nice too. I do think it's worth it for people who feel miserable to try to figure out how to be not-miserable. But as a related comment says, I enjoy food and shelter. At this point I'm torn between the known misery-and-low-pay-but-job-security of teaching, vs throwing myself back into the meat grinder of software development, knowing I'll make twice the money for less hours worked, but probably I'll get abused and fired again. Is that a superficial argument?
- Hamuko 4y ago
  >Is permanently exposing yourself to a level of emotional stress that results in a semi-permanent depressive state really worth the money? Yes.
  - hrbf 4y ago
    Why?
    - Hamuko 4y ago
      I enjoy food and shelter.
    - no_time 4y ago
      I feel like Bender from Futurama. He was made with one job in mind: Bending. Its exceptionlly well paying considering I have no formal qualifications or the patience to get any. These two facts are enough for me to not even entertain the idea of leaving IT in general.
    - _Algernon_ 4y ago
      The emotional stress of not having food and shelter is worse?
    - nicbou 4y ago
      These bootstraps don't provide the leverage you think they do. Changing careers is hard and most of them come with their own flavour of bullshit. Some people have dependents and can't afford to turn the whole ship halfway through their journey.
      - hrbf 4y ago
        Hey, if you’re committed to find specific examples where general ones don’t work, you’re certainly going to find an endless supply of them. I cannot, will not and never have claimed to be able to provide concrete help for individual situations. In the end you’re entirely free to choose your own way, whatever that may be. I guess it’s just that knowingly choosing permanent depression in exchange for perceived financial stability is an unfathomable proposition for me.