4 ms·

I am extremely glad I live in a country in continental Europe where this shit is unconstitutional and will be stricken down by the courts immediately (as will b

I am extremely glad I live in a country in continental Europe where this shit is unconstitutional and will be stricken down by the courts immediately (as will be any sort of preferential treatment of any minority in hiring or admissions). Hope it stays that way.

stjohnswarts 4y ago
I think there is a burgeoning push back on quotas and such as well. I think the woke crowd pushed their luck a bit too hard. This is coming from a very progressive person (me) but who also feels egalitarianism and personal responsibility should always be the goal and not an afterthought.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  I'm not getting that impression. For what it's worth, "woke left" has always been a minority, yet it hasn't lost momentum as much as it continually rotates in direction. Specifically, we're seeing more and more non-NA countries adopt these rhetorics from both the US and CA. Politics is becoming more and more extremist too, with the extreme left lashing out and calling anyone who even questions the status quo an extreme rightist bigot, and the extreme right doing the equivalent. And the two are fueled by both one another, as well as increasing tensions due to national issues.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    The extreme left and right do fuel each other. I think Trump's rise in 2015 was somewhat related to the rise of wokeness in 2012. A large slice of right wing media today is outrage at wokeness. It's animating them. The fascists in Japan and Germany were partly motivated out of a fear of Bolsheviks. This is my main gripe with wokeness. Yes I dislike the illiberalism of quotas and the collectivist nature of its moral system (collective guilt and inherited guilt). But my main concern is the right wing backlash and the consequences of that on democracy and freedom.
- whoooooo123 4y ago
  Aren't egalitarianism and personal responsibility kind of incompatible with each other? You can't maximise them both at the same time.
gnull 4y ago
But can't they still demand people to make this kind of political statements? (With no actual preferential treatment rules.)
perceptronas 4y ago
Interestingly, in my EU country we have explicit laws in constitution which forbid any kind of preferential treatment or discrimination based on gender, race and etc. However, there are agencies and courts who allow affirmative action policies to exist. For example, a public grant for entrepreneurs where women are officially awarded extra points for their gender. So basically constitution is ignored and no one cares.
- nix23 4y ago
  In Switzerland it's illegal to make a difference between genders...however since a very short time woman's had to work not as long as men, now some woman cry it's unfair and blablabla, and there is still one or more thing, woman's don't have to go to military-service OR pay money for not going. But if you say that, some of them will tell you that they would do that if they earn the same as men, but that is already in law...if you ask them for proof they never have any...
  - somedude895 4y ago
    It actually is legal in Switzerland to discriminate based on gender, if the administrative class decides that it's just: > Appropriate measures aimed at achieving true equality are not regarded as discriminatory. https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1996/1498_1498_1498/de#art_3 https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1996/1498_1498_1498/de#ar...
    - nix23 4y ago
      >>Appropriate measures aimed at achieving true equality are not regarded as discriminatory. So since Men have a shorter lifespan (even in country's where alcohol and drugs are a nogo...if someone want to come with that argument) Men should not work as long as Woman's ;) excellent!! BTW: What are Appropriate measures?....that's a typical Swiss law, it just say's nothing..and everything ;)
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > Interestingly, in my EU country we have explicit laws in constitution which forbid any kind of preferential treatment or discrimination based on gender, race and etc. However, there are agencies and courts who allow affirmative action policies to exist. For example, a public grant for entrepreneurs where women are officially awarded extra points for their gender. This is also the case in the United States.
pm3003 4y ago
There aren't a lot of fully private academic education institutions in Europe, compared to the US. But I wonder if they could do that sort of thing based of their existing limitations for academic freedom. If an institution funded by Volkswagen wants the professors to work on car related stuff to advance technological goals, couldn't they also require them to work towards social or political goals?
- collegeburner 4y ago
  autonomy of "private" institutions partially died with the mechanism of tying title ix compliance to any federal dollars. i think there are 2 colleges in America that take 0 federal aid (pell grants etc.) so don't have to comply. tbh i always found it contradictory we don't use those federal $ to require compliance with all constitutional rights, e.g. 1 and 2a.
coffeeblack 4y ago
In less that two years, this will be common over here as well.
mrkeen 4y ago
What do you think the writers of the constitution were aiming for when they made 'that shit unconstitutional'? Were they trying to advance equity, inclusion, and anti-racism?
- trention 4y ago
  They were trying to make sure the country I live in (which has more than 1 significant "traditional" minority) does not partition along ethnic lines by instituting differentiated treatment on the basis of ethnicity. But thanks for bringing your bullshit, unapplicable anglo concepts to the entire world. We really appreciate it every time.
dudul 4y ago
Unlikely, I don't know what "continental Europe" means here, but DE&I is gaining a lot of traction in Western/Central Europe. In countries whose history is completely different from the US' and where it makes literally no sense to think of race this way.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

I think there is a burgeoning push back on quotas and such as well. I think the woke crowd pushed their luck a bit too hard. This is coming from a very progressive person (me) but who also feels egalitarianism and personal responsibility should always be the goal and not an afterthought.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
I'm not getting that impression. For what it's worth, "woke left" has always been a minority, yet it hasn't lost momentum as much as it continually rotates in direction. Specifically, we're seeing more and more non-NA countries adopt these rhetorics from both the US and CA. Politics is becoming more and more extremist too, with the extreme left lashing out and calling anyone who even questions the status quo an extreme rightist bigot, and the extreme right doing the equivalent. And the two are fueled by both one another, as well as increasing tensions due to national issues.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  The extreme left and right do fuel each other. I think Trump's rise in 2015 was somewhat related to the rise of wokeness in 2012. A large slice of right wing media today is outrage at wokeness. It's animating them. The fascists in Japan and Germany were partly motivated out of a fear of Bolsheviks. This is my main gripe with wokeness. Yes I dislike the illiberalism of quotas and the collectivist nature of its moral system (collective guilt and inherited guilt). But my main concern is the right wing backlash and the consequences of that on democracy and freedom.
whoooooo123 4y ago
Aren't egalitarianism and personal responsibility kind of incompatible with each other? You can't maximise them both at the same time.

gnull 4y ago

But can't they still demand people to make this kind of political statements? (With no actual preferential treatment rules.)

perceptronas 4y ago

Interestingly, in my EU country we have explicit laws in constitution which forbid any kind of preferential treatment or discrimination based on gender, race and etc. However, there are agencies and courts who allow affirmative action policies to exist. For example, a public grant for entrepreneurs where women are officially awarded extra points for their gender. So basically constitution is ignored and no one cares.

nix23 4y ago
In Switzerland it's illegal to make a difference between genders...however since a very short time woman's had to work not as long as men, now some woman cry it's unfair and blablabla, and there is still one or more thing, woman's don't have to go to military-service OR pay money for not going. But if you say that, some of them will tell you that they would do that if they earn the same as men, but that is already in law...if you ask them for proof they never have any...
- somedude895 4y ago
  It actually is legal in Switzerland to discriminate based on gender, if the administrative class decides that it's just: > Appropriate measures aimed at achieving true equality are not regarded as discriminatory. https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1996/1498_1498_1498/de#art_3 https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1996/1498_1498_1498/de#ar...
  - nix23 4y ago
    >>Appropriate measures aimed at achieving true equality are not regarded as discriminatory. So since Men have a shorter lifespan (even in country's where alcohol and drugs are a nogo...if someone want to come with that argument) Men should not work as long as Woman's ;) excellent!! BTW: What are Appropriate measures?....that's a typical Swiss law, it just say's nothing..and everything ;)
thaumasiotes 4y ago
> Interestingly, in my EU country we have explicit laws in constitution which forbid any kind of preferential treatment or discrimination based on gender, race and etc. However, there are agencies and courts who allow affirmative action policies to exist. For example, a public grant for entrepreneurs where women are officially awarded extra points for their gender. This is also the case in the United States.

pm3003 4y ago

There aren't a lot of fully private academic education institutions in Europe, compared to the US. But I wonder if they could do that sort of thing based of their existing limitations for academic freedom. If an institution funded by Volkswagen wants the professors to work on car related stuff to advance technological goals, couldn't they also require them to work towards social or political goals?

collegeburner 4y ago
autonomy of "private" institutions partially died with the mechanism of tying title ix compliance to any federal dollars. i think there are 2 colleges in America that take 0 federal aid (pell grants etc.) so don't have to comply. tbh i always found it contradictory we don't use those federal $ to require compliance with all constitutional rights, e.g. 1 and 2a.

coffeeblack 4y ago

In less that two years, this will be common over here as well.

mrkeen 4y ago

What do you think the writers of the constitution were aiming for when they made 'that shit unconstitutional'? Were they trying to advance equity, inclusion, and anti-racism?

trention 4y ago
They were trying to make sure the country I live in (which has more than 1 significant "traditional" minority) does not partition along ethnic lines by instituting differentiated treatment on the basis of ethnicity. But thanks for bringing your bullshit, unapplicable anglo concepts to the entire world. We really appreciate it every time.

dudul 4y ago

Unlikely, I don't know what "continental Europe" means here, but DE&I is gaining a lot of traction in Western/Central Europe. In countries whose history is completely different from the US' and where it makes literally no sense to think of race this way.