4 ms·

CAMM memory preview: The Dell SODIMM revolution

11 points by justsomehnguy 4y ago

gtvwill 4y ago
Lol not really a revolution. Points which make it not revolutionary. It's a proprietary format using pre existing tech (which reads like dell doing half the work to try and lock consumers and manufacturers into some long haul royalty bs). It doesn't have a fixed size format (varies based on capacity). Being faster than the previous gen when increases in perf are the norm isn't revolutionary. If anything because the tech is proprietary and just an amalgamation of pre existing stuff it's a step backwards. 2/5 for dell, they could have done better.
rowanG077 4y ago
It's unclear from the article but this still just standard DDR right? Just a different connector? Honestly ultrabook vendors should just start soldering memory if thickness really is an issue. I'm an embedded dev and know many other developers. And I know of no one who ever upgraded their laptop RAM. CPU RAM is almost never the limiting factor nowadays anyway.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  > Honestly ultrabook vendors should just start soldering memory if thickness really is an issue They already do that > And I know of no one who ever upgraded their laptop RAM That doesn't mean those people doesn't exists. Actually I recently bought a 8GB SO-DIMM module so I can have a little more breathing room. After I replace the module I owuld have 12Gb RAM. If I could replace both modules I would did it, but 1 IS soldered 4Gb module and I can do nothing with it. An I have T440 sitting next to me which was upgraded to 8Gb because it's default 4Gb is not... much usable in 2022, along with 5400RPM HDD, which of course was replaced to SSD too. EDIT: > still just standard DDR right? Just a different connector? Standard DDR chips. It's a different connector which allows for a faster modules to be used, because a current SO-DIMM has too much too long lanes which are very succeptible for interference: >> More specifically, RAM speeds greater than 6400 MT/s are not possible with the current standard. This ceiling is becoming a problem on very high-end laptops and workstations while most consumer-level laptops have yet to reach the limit. Naturally, more laptops will hit the ceiling in the years to come as RAM speeds become faster and faster. >> It’s worth noting that CAMM utilizes the same DRAM ICs as found on SODIMM modules but with a different interface to the PCB. Thus, it is this interface that makes CAMM special and the heart of the patents under Dell. You can read about it here: https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-controversial-new-laptop-memory.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-cont...
  - rowanG077 4y ago
    Sure they definitely exist. But I would be surprised it's more then a hundredth to a tenth of a percent of users. Sure you can pander to those, and you should if it doesn't have serious drawbacks. But not being able make laptops smaller is a serious drawback, even this CAMM memory is still stacking PCBs which costs quite a bit of room.
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      > But not being able make laptops smaller is a serious drawback How thin your notebook should be? Especially if it's not a low powered used once in a while\emergency one, but an everyday workhorse? I updated my previous comment, take a look there.
      - rowanG077 4y ago
        As thin as possible to not throttle under load. A few mm saved in the memory module could allow for a slightly thicker fan for example.
        gtvwill 4y ago
        Lol find me a laptop where the memory and the fan share the same footprint.laptops aren't short of space.
        rowanG077 4y ago
        > Lol find me a laptop where the memory and the fan share the same footprint Designing any laptop is an effort in solving constraints as best as possible. Of course if you suddenly create a few mm somewhere it might allow you to redesign the laptop to use those extra mm. It has nothing to do whether memory or fans share the same footprint. > laptops aren't short of space. Of course they are. Any device that is designed to be as portable as possible is short of space. You can obviously see that in the components used. 15 inch laptops can have much more powerful CPUs and GPUs just because they have more space. If laptops weren't short of space we'd have the most powerful laptops in the smallest form factors with essentially infinite battery power.

11 points by justsomehnguy 4y ago

Lol not really a revolution. Points which make it not revolutionary. It's a proprietary format using pre existing tech (which reads like dell doing half the work to try and lock consumers and manufacturers into some long haul royalty bs). It doesn't have a fixed size format (varies based on capacity). Being faster than the previous gen when increases in perf are the norm isn't revolutionary. If anything because the tech is proprietary and just an amalgamation of pre existing stuff it's a step backwards. 2/5 for dell, they could have done better.

rowanG077 4y ago

It's unclear from the article but this still just standard DDR right? Just a different connector? Honestly ultrabook vendors should just start soldering memory if thickness really is an issue. I'm an embedded dev and know many other developers. And I know of no one who ever upgraded their laptop RAM. CPU RAM is almost never the limiting factor nowadays anyway.

justsomehnguy 4y ago
> Honestly ultrabook vendors should just start soldering memory if thickness really is an issue They already do that > And I know of no one who ever upgraded their laptop RAM That doesn't mean those people doesn't exists. Actually I recently bought a 8GB SO-DIMM module so I can have a little more breathing room. After I replace the module I owuld have 12Gb RAM. If I could replace both modules I would did it, but 1 IS soldered 4Gb module and I can do nothing with it. An I have T440 sitting next to me which was upgraded to 8Gb because it's default 4Gb is not... much usable in 2022, along with 5400RPM HDD, which of course was replaced to SSD too. EDIT: > still just standard DDR right? Just a different connector? Standard DDR chips. It's a different connector which allows for a faster modules to be used, because a current SO-DIMM has too much too long lanes which are very succeptible for interference: >> More specifically, RAM speeds greater than 6400 MT/s are not possible with the current standard. This ceiling is becoming a problem on very high-end laptops and workstations while most consumer-level laptops have yet to reach the limit. Naturally, more laptops will hit the ceiling in the years to come as RAM speeds become faster and faster. >> It’s worth noting that CAMM utilizes the same DRAM ICs as found on SODIMM modules but with a different interface to the PCB. Thus, it is this interface that makes CAMM special and the heart of the patents under Dell. You can read about it here: https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-controversial-new-laptop-memory.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/693366/dell-defends-its-cont...
- rowanG077 4y ago
  Sure they definitely exist. But I would be surprised it's more then a hundredth to a tenth of a percent of users. Sure you can pander to those, and you should if it doesn't have serious drawbacks. But not being able make laptops smaller is a serious drawback, even this CAMM memory is still stacking PCBs which costs quite a bit of room.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    > But not being able make laptops smaller is a serious drawback How thin your notebook should be? Especially if it's not a low powered used once in a while\emergency one, but an everyday workhorse? I updated my previous comment, take a look there.
    - rowanG077 4y ago
      As thin as possible to not throttle under load. A few mm saved in the memory module could allow for a slightly thicker fan for example.
      - gtvwill 4y ago
        Lol find me a laptop where the memory and the fan share the same footprint.laptops aren't short of space.
        rowanG077 4y ago
        > Lol find me a laptop where the memory and the fan share the same footprint Designing any laptop is an effort in solving constraints as best as possible. Of course if you suddenly create a few mm somewhere it might allow you to redesign the laptop to use those extra mm. It has nothing to do whether memory or fans share the same footprint. > laptops aren't short of space. Of course they are. Any device that is designed to be as portable as possible is short of space. You can obviously see that in the components used. 15 inch laptops can have much more powerful CPUs and GPUs just because they have more space. If laptops weren't short of space we'd have the most powerful laptops in the smallest form factors with essentially infinite battery power.