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> No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. You can say that, but t

> No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. You can say that, but the data says otherwise[0], with time with friends peaking at ~18 or so. Time spent with coworkers surpasses time spent with friends @ 20. I agree this is a problem in some ways (the discrimination you mention, conflict of power, etc), but in many ways it makes sense. You're spending 40-50hrs/week on an activity that involves others, you're probably going to have some non-commercial relationship with them. And maybe the opportunity of a good life is in finding that non-commercial relationship, while making money? To me - it's actually the suburbanization, the glass windows between everyone in cars on some "stroad"... of american life that causes this. The lack of literal physical interactions with others reduces your community to only the nuclear essentials. I'm desperately searching for a life that combines meaningful work, large community, privacy, and space. I'm still searching. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime

vorpalhex 4y ago
Friendship isn't just spending time with someone. Let's invert the problem. My coworkers are stuck with me. More or less, whether they love me or hate me, they don't really get to say no to being around me. To that end, my goal around my coworkers is to be pleasant and not too opinionated. We'll talk about non-combustible sort of topics and I'll try to keep myself restrained on strong opinions. I don't do that with my friends. I pick my friends and my friends pick me. I am very close to my friends and we know each other fairly intimately, including our thorny opinions and sex lives and non-HR approved behaviors. We are friends. Do not burden your coworkers with your relationship. Be professional. Have real friends - and be real with them so that you may know them and be known in return.
- closeparen 4y ago
  Not everyone you have regular, unplanned contact with is or ought to be your real friend. On the other hand, nearly everyone who becomes a real friend is someone you previously had regular, unplanned contact with. We're headed for a world where everyone is either close enough to make explicit plans with, or a total stranger in a public place - we will no longer have this third category "coworker" or "classmate" that's conducive to deeper relationships. That's a real loss.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
coffeeblack 4y ago
I am sure that companies would love that. Being tied to the company for your healthcare (in the U.S.) and also being tied by having so your friends in the company. Great “lock in”.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  You are not tied to the company for healthcare. You are tied to a company. This means that healthcare is not much of a leverage to keep you tied to any particular company. Similarly, I am not required to go through the company in order to socialize with friends I made in that company. Indeed, I maintain friendships I made in companies I no longer work for. Lastly, making friends through your job is how it always has been. Talk to your parents.
  - Retric 4y ago
    The removal of the pre existing condition exception does make heath insurance more portable. On the other hand, getting a new job while you have a major health issue is much harder while keeping an existing job is not because companies can’t discriminate based on employee health, but it’s much harder to prove discrimination during highering. So in theory it’s not a limitation, but in practice it often is.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      > On the other hand, getting a new job while you have a major health issue is much harder while keeping an existing job is not because companies can’t discriminate based on employee health As far as I know, employers are free to terminate anyone having health issues that render them unable to perform their duties: https://work.chron.com/termination-employment-due-ill-health-12422.html https://work.chron.com/termination-employment-due-ill-health... FMLA (if employer has more than 50 employees) or a state disability law might protect employment for up to 12 weeks or so, but other than that, there is no reason a business has to keep a sick employee who cannot fulfill duties on payroll.
      - 4y ago
pessimizer 4y ago
> You can say that, but the data says otherwise[0], with time with friends peaking at ~18 or so. Time spent with coworkers surpasses time spent with friends @ 20. And my time on the bus far surpasses the time I spend with my mother, so I suppose I love the bus more than my mother.

vorpalhex 4y ago

Friendship isn't just spending time with someone. Let's invert the problem. My coworkers are stuck with me. More or less, whether they love me or hate me, they don't really get to say no to being around me. To that end, my goal around my coworkers is to be pleasant and not too opinionated. We'll talk about non-combustible sort of topics and I'll try to keep myself restrained on strong opinions. I don't do that with my friends. I pick my friends and my friends pick me. I am very close to my friends and we know each other fairly intimately, including our thorny opinions and sex lives and non-HR approved behaviors. We are friends. Do not burden your coworkers with your relationship. Be professional. Have real friends - and be real with them so that you may know them and be known in return.

closeparen 4y ago
Not everyone you have regular, unplanned contact with is or ought to be your real friend. On the other hand, nearly everyone who becomes a real friend is someone you previously had regular, unplanned contact with. We're headed for a world where everyone is either close enough to make explicit plans with, or a total stranger in a public place - we will no longer have this third category "coworker" or "classmate" that's conducive to deeper relationships. That's a real loss.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

coffeeblack 4y ago

I am sure that companies would love that. Being tied to the company for your healthcare (in the U.S.) and also being tied by having so your friends in the company. Great “lock in”.

xyzzyz 4y ago
You are not tied to the company for healthcare. You are tied to a company. This means that healthcare is not much of a leverage to keep you tied to any particular company. Similarly, I am not required to go through the company in order to socialize with friends I made in that company. Indeed, I maintain friendships I made in companies I no longer work for. Lastly, making friends through your job is how it always has been. Talk to your parents.
- Retric 4y ago
  The removal of the pre existing condition exception does make heath insurance more portable. On the other hand, getting a new job while you have a major health issue is much harder while keeping an existing job is not because companies can’t discriminate based on employee health, but it’s much harder to prove discrimination during highering. So in theory it’s not a limitation, but in practice it often is.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > On the other hand, getting a new job while you have a major health issue is much harder while keeping an existing job is not because companies can’t discriminate based on employee health As far as I know, employers are free to terminate anyone having health issues that render them unable to perform their duties: https://work.chron.com/termination-employment-due-ill-health-12422.html https://work.chron.com/termination-employment-due-ill-health... FMLA (if employer has more than 50 employees) or a state disability law might protect employment for up to 12 weeks or so, but other than that, there is no reason a business has to keep a sick employee who cannot fulfill duties on payroll.
    - 4y ago

pessimizer 4y ago

> You can say that, but the data says otherwise[0], with time with friends peaking at ~18 or so. Time spent with coworkers surpasses time spent with friends @ 20. And my time on the bus far surpasses the time I spend with my mother, so I suppose I love the bus more than my mother.