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No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. There are plenty of reas

by chrsig 4y ago

No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. There are plenty of reasons why many can't welcome coworkers into your private life. It's a huge discrimination risk. Aside from that, coupling social needs with employment needs creates a form of codependence with the workplace. You have more incentive to stay at a job that is mistreating you because you'll lose your friends if you leave. Maybe some people are ok with those dynamics, but I'm personally not, and I'll not have my colleagues forcing it upon me.

starkd 4y ago
Perhaps, but that's not the way many people actually live. Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing, but the institutions that once did that are dying or long dead.
- chrsig 4y ago
  > Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing I don't know if you intended it, but this directly equates work to socializing. I don't seek out alternatives to socializing because I don't use work as a socialization tool. If anything, people using work for their primary socialization outlet are using it as an alternative to socializing.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Ask yourself what political movements killed those institutions. It wasn't organic. People naturally come to together but most of those institutions have been harassed or outright outlawed out of existence. Make freedom of association an absolute right instead of something to be demonized and those institutions will return, along with all of the healthy social outcomes they enabled.
codemac 4y ago
> No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. You can say that, but the data says otherwise[0], with time with friends peaking at ~18 or so. Time spent with coworkers surpasses time spent with friends @ 20. I agree this is a problem in some ways (the discrimination you mention, conflict of power, etc), but in many ways it makes sense. You're spending 40-50hrs/week on an activity that involves others, you're probably going to have some non-commercial relationship with them. And maybe the opportunity of a good life is in finding that non-commercial relationship, while making money? To me - it's actually the suburbanization, the glass windows between everyone in cars on some "stroad"... of american life that causes this. The lack of literal physical interactions with others reduces your community to only the nuclear essentials. I'm desperately searching for a life that combines meaningful work, large community, privacy, and space. I'm still searching. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Friendship isn't just spending time with someone. Let's invert the problem. My coworkers are stuck with me. More or less, whether they love me or hate me, they don't really get to say no to being around me. To that end, my goal around my coworkers is to be pleasant and not too opinionated. We'll talk about non-combustible sort of topics and I'll try to keep myself restrained on strong opinions. I don't do that with my friends. I pick my friends and my friends pick me. I am very close to my friends and we know each other fairly intimately, including our thorny opinions and sex lives and non-HR approved behaviors. We are friends. Do not burden your coworkers with your relationship. Be professional. Have real friends - and be real with them so that you may know them and be known in return.
  - closeparen 4y ago
    Not everyone you have regular, unplanned contact with is or ought to be your real friend. On the other hand, nearly everyone who becomes a real friend is someone you previously had regular, unplanned contact with. We're headed for a world where everyone is either close enough to make explicit plans with, or a total stranger in a public place - we will no longer have this third category "coworker" or "classmate" that's conducive to deeper relationships. That's a real loss.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  I am sure that companies would love that. Being tied to the company for your healthcare (in the U.S.) and also being tied by having so your friends in the company. Great “lock in”.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    You are not tied to the company for healthcare. You are tied to a company. This means that healthcare is not much of a leverage to keep you tied to any particular company. Similarly, I am not required to go through the company in order to socialize with friends I made in that company. Indeed, I maintain friendships I made in companies I no longer work for. Lastly, making friends through your job is how it always has been. Talk to your parents.

by chrsig 4y ago

starkd 4y ago

Perhaps, but that's not the way many people actually live. Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing, but the institutions that once did that are dying or long dead.

chrsig 4y ago
> Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing I don't know if you intended it, but this directly equates work to socializing. I don't seek out alternatives to socializing because I don't use work as a socialization tool. If anything, people using work for their primary socialization outlet are using it as an alternative to socializing.
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Ask yourself what political movements killed those institutions. It wasn't organic. People naturally come to together but most of those institutions have been harassed or outright outlawed out of existence. Make freedom of association an absolute right instead of something to be demonized and those institutions will return, along with all of the healthy social outcomes they enabled.

codemac 4y ago

> No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. You can say that, but the data says otherwise[0], with time with friends peaking at ~18 or so. Time spent with coworkers surpasses time spent with friends @ 20. I agree this is a problem in some ways (the discrimination you mention, conflict of power, etc), but in many ways it makes sense. You're spending 40-50hrs/week on an activity that involves others, you're probably going to have some non-commercial relationship with them. And maybe the opportunity of a good life is in finding that non-commercial relationship, while making money? To me - it's actually the suburbanization, the glass windows between everyone in cars on some "stroad"... of american life that causes this. The lack of literal physical interactions with others reduces your community to only the nuclear essentials. I'm desperately searching for a life that combines meaningful work, large community, privacy, and space. I'm still searching. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime

vorpalhex 4y ago
Friendship isn't just spending time with someone. Let's invert the problem. My coworkers are stuck with me. More or less, whether they love me or hate me, they don't really get to say no to being around me. To that end, my goal around my coworkers is to be pleasant and not too opinionated. We'll talk about non-combustible sort of topics and I'll try to keep myself restrained on strong opinions. I don't do that with my friends. I pick my friends and my friends pick me. I am very close to my friends and we know each other fairly intimately, including our thorny opinions and sex lives and non-HR approved behaviors. We are friends. Do not burden your coworkers with your relationship. Be professional. Have real friends - and be real with them so that you may know them and be known in return.
- closeparen 4y ago
  Not everyone you have regular, unplanned contact with is or ought to be your real friend. On the other hand, nearly everyone who becomes a real friend is someone you previously had regular, unplanned contact with. We're headed for a world where everyone is either close enough to make explicit plans with, or a total stranger in a public place - we will no longer have this third category "coworker" or "classmate" that's conducive to deeper relationships. That's a real loss.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
coffeeblack 4y ago
I am sure that companies would love that. Being tied to the company for your healthcare (in the U.S.) and also being tied by having so your friends in the company. Great “lock in”.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  You are not tied to the company for healthcare. You are tied to a company. This means that healthcare is not much of a leverage to keep you tied to any particular company. Similarly, I am not required to go through the company in order to socialize with friends I made in that company. Indeed, I maintain friendships I made in companies I no longer work for. Lastly, making friends through your job is how it always has been. Talk to your parents.