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A sensible approach. On site work is a thing of the past. We need more remote people for a higher quality of life, less pollution and improved mental health. I

A sensible approach. On site work is a thing of the past. We need more remote people for a higher quality of life, less pollution and improved mental health. I appreciate there are those without friends or family that want to fill in the void with coworkers but your coworkers are simply not there for that.

Nux 4y ago
> but your coworkers are simply not there for that. Yes they are, many of them would be there in a similar situation. The work place colleagues is the main pool one draws "friends" from nowadays in very many cases.
- dfee 4y ago
  You may be right, but that’s a sad ordeal: your boss is an arbiter of your social interactions? That’s not healthy for you (those people), not for society, and especially not for local communities.
- chrsig 4y ago
  No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. There are plenty of reasons why many can't welcome coworkers into your private life. It's a huge discrimination risk. Aside from that, coupling social needs with employment needs creates a form of codependence with the workplace. You have more incentive to stay at a job that is mistreating you because you'll lose your friends if you leave. Maybe some people are ok with those dynamics, but I'm personally not, and I'll not have my colleagues forcing it upon me.
  - starkd 4y ago
    Perhaps, but that's not the way many people actually live. Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing, but the institutions that once did that are dying or long dead.
    - chrsig 4y ago
      > Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing I don't know if you intended it, but this directly equates work to socializing. I don't seek out alternatives to socializing because I don't use work as a socialization tool. If anything, people using work for their primary socialization outlet are using it as an alternative to socializing.
    - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
      Ask yourself what political movements killed those institutions. It wasn't organic. People naturally come to together but most of those institutions have been harassed or outright outlawed out of existence. Make freedom of association an absolute right instead of something to be demonized and those institutions will return, along with all of the healthy social outcomes they enabled.
  - codemac 4y ago
    > No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. You can say that, but the data says otherwise[0], with time with friends peaking at ~18 or so. Time spent with coworkers surpasses time spent with friends @ 20. I agree this is a problem in some ways (the discrimination you mention, conflict of power, etc), but in many ways it makes sense. You're spending 40-50hrs/week on an activity that involves others, you're probably going to have some non-commercial relationship with them. And maybe the opportunity of a good life is in finding that non-commercial relationship, while making money? To me - it's actually the suburbanization, the glass windows between everyone in cars on some "stroad"... of american life that causes this. The lack of literal physical interactions with others reduces your community to only the nuclear essentials. I'm desperately searching for a life that combines meaningful work, large community, privacy, and space. I'm still searching. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Friendship isn't just spending time with someone. Let's invert the problem. My coworkers are stuck with me. More or less, whether they love me or hate me, they don't really get to say no to being around me. To that end, my goal around my coworkers is to be pleasant and not too opinionated. We'll talk about non-combustible sort of topics and I'll try to keep myself restrained on strong opinions. I don't do that with my friends. I pick my friends and my friends pick me. I am very close to my friends and we know each other fairly intimately, including our thorny opinions and sex lives and non-HR approved behaviors. We are friends. Do not burden your coworkers with your relationship. Be professional. Have real friends - and be real with them so that you may know them and be known in return.
      - closeparen 4y ago
        Not everyone you have regular, unplanned contact with is or ought to be your real friend. On the other hand, nearly everyone who becomes a real friend is someone you previously had regular, unplanned contact with. We're headed for a world where everyone is either close enough to make explicit plans with, or a total stranger in a public place - we will no longer have this third category "coworker" or "classmate" that's conducive to deeper relationships. That's a real loss.
- ysavir 4y ago
  Not sure why this is being downvoted. True, not all coworkers are there for building a social life, but many are. The GP was just as single-sided in its evaluation of workplace comradery. What we would benefit from is workplaces having a strong stance on which culture they belong to, and applicants understanding that, respecting it, and seeking employment in the desired culture.
  - patch_cable 4y ago
    I’ve always felt the “coworkers can’t be your friends” argument was as silly as saying “school mates can’t be your friends.” Make friends where you make them.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      Of course they can be your friends. But demanding they leave their families behind to hold your hand in an office is creepy.
      - toofy 4y ago
        no one is “demanding” someone “leave their families behind” to hold anyone’s hand in an office.
        Mountain_Skies 4y ago
        The context here is of 'work from home' vs 'go to the office' because coworkers need you to socialize with them, so yes, some are indeed demanding that workers leave their families behind to come hold their hand in the office.
        krona 4y ago
        Where I work, family time is family time and work time is work time. Working from home should very little difference, and if it persistently does then that's a problem.
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  I've had many people I would consider work friends I was happy to see and talk to every day and even hang out with, but Noone I kept a friendship with after moving on. Feels like it crosses a line to me about work and life being separate things.
  - patch_cable 4y ago
    On the contrary some of my best friends I’ve made at work and I continue to spend time with them years after we’ve all moved on to different jobs.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  Thats just creepy. Sounds a bit like a communist collective where everyone sleeps, works, eats and lives together. But no, we are not there for you. Build your own private life.
  - patch_cable 4y ago
    Would you say the same about school?
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      I am not against making friends in either place. I am against demanding it, which forcing people into offices means.
      - patch_cable 4y ago
        I didn’t read anyone up the chain suggesting it be forced, just that there are some people who do like being together in person.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - unethical_ban 4y ago
    In places that don't suck, coworkers do support each other and are friendly, at least to some extent. Work is 1/3 of ones life. I don't get how many people are hostile to socialization during that time.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  What about neighbors?
nu11ptr 4y ago
> but your coworkers are simply not there for that I've become friends with coworkers at every job I've been at. Most of the time when I leave that is pretty much it, but I've also retained some of those friendships for years now (one particular friend I go out with at least once a month still). Another group of friends from several jobs ago I try and meet up once a year at a particular conference we all attend - no, we aren't terribly close anymore but once we are back together it is like old times again. In summary, I don't think there is any need to create "rules" on such things. Some people might become friends with their coworkers and some might not. Social bonds are important, and there is no need to try and draw lines on which bonds are appropriate or not - everyone is capable of deciding this for themselves.
- Telemoto 4y ago
  I retained a few good friends from one particular small nerdy and young company. But I joined that company because of it. It was also very unique in itself. If Homeoffice would become the norm I could imagine actually enjoying the people who life around me. Due to covid I have seen much more of the people I actually life cloth. Neighbors etc. It would also be much cooler if friends would life closer to be able to meet up etc. But I still think it's
pastaguy1 4y ago
Something feels a little off in this particular case. I feel like there is an implied increase in flexibility with WFH for many of us here, but I doubt call center employees get that benefit at all.
- nu11ptr 4y ago
  They likely get some of that. For example, I do laundry, and for me, 70% of that is popping one load in the washer, transferring to the dryer and back out. After that, I quickly fold and put away. That sort of task could easily be done I suspect while on the phone with a wireless headset. There are probably other household tasks that don't take much brainpower that could be multitasked.

Nux 4y ago

> but your coworkers are simply not there for that. Yes they are, many of them would be there in a similar situation. The work place colleagues is the main pool one draws "friends" from nowadays in very many cases.

dfee 4y ago
You may be right, but that’s a sad ordeal: your boss is an arbiter of your social interactions? That’s not healthy for you (those people), not for society, and especially not for local communities.
chrsig 4y ago
No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. There are plenty of reasons why many can't welcome coworkers into your private life. It's a huge discrimination risk. Aside from that, coupling social needs with employment needs creates a form of codependence with the workplace. You have more incentive to stay at a job that is mistreating you because you'll lose your friends if you leave. Maybe some people are ok with those dynamics, but I'm personally not, and I'll not have my colleagues forcing it upon me.
- starkd 4y ago
  Perhaps, but that's not the way many people actually live. Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing, but the institutions that once did that are dying or long dead.
  - chrsig 4y ago
    > Maybe you would seek out alternates to socializing I don't know if you intended it, but this directly equates work to socializing. I don't seek out alternatives to socializing because I don't use work as a socialization tool. If anything, people using work for their primary socialization outlet are using it as an alternative to socializing.
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    Ask yourself what political movements killed those institutions. It wasn't organic. People naturally come to together but most of those institutions have been harassed or outright outlawed out of existence. Make freedom of association an absolute right instead of something to be demonized and those institutions will return, along with all of the healthy social outcomes they enabled.
- codemac 4y ago
  > No, they're not. And no, I'm not. And no amount of using coworkers as a crutch for not having a private social life will change that. You can say that, but the data says otherwise[0], with time with friends peaking at ~18 or so. Time spent with coworkers surpasses time spent with friends @ 20. I agree this is a problem in some ways (the discrimination you mention, conflict of power, etc), but in many ways it makes sense. You're spending 40-50hrs/week on an activity that involves others, you're probably going to have some non-commercial relationship with them. And maybe the opportunity of a good life is in finding that non-commercial relationship, while making money? To me - it's actually the suburbanization, the glass windows between everyone in cars on some "stroad"... of american life that causes this. The lack of literal physical interactions with others reduces your community to only the nuclear essentials. I'm desperately searching for a life that combines meaningful work, large community, privacy, and space. I'm still searching. [0]: https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime https://ourworldindata.org/time-with-others-lifetime
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Friendship isn't just spending time with someone. Let's invert the problem. My coworkers are stuck with me. More or less, whether they love me or hate me, they don't really get to say no to being around me. To that end, my goal around my coworkers is to be pleasant and not too opinionated. We'll talk about non-combustible sort of topics and I'll try to keep myself restrained on strong opinions. I don't do that with my friends. I pick my friends and my friends pick me. I am very close to my friends and we know each other fairly intimately, including our thorny opinions and sex lives and non-HR approved behaviors. We are friends. Do not burden your coworkers with your relationship. Be professional. Have real friends - and be real with them so that you may know them and be known in return.
    - closeparen 4y ago
      Not everyone you have regular, unplanned contact with is or ought to be your real friend. On the other hand, nearly everyone who becomes a real friend is someone you previously had regular, unplanned contact with. We're headed for a world where everyone is either close enough to make explicit plans with, or a total stranger in a public place - we will no longer have this third category "coworker" or "classmate" that's conducive to deeper relationships. That's a real loss.
ysavir 4y ago
Not sure why this is being downvoted. True, not all coworkers are there for building a social life, but many are. The GP was just as single-sided in its evaluation of workplace comradery. What we would benefit from is workplaces having a strong stance on which culture they belong to, and applicants understanding that, respecting it, and seeking employment in the desired culture.
- patch_cable 4y ago
  I’ve always felt the “coworkers can’t be your friends” argument was as silly as saying “school mates can’t be your friends.” Make friends where you make them.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    Of course they can be your friends. But demanding they leave their families behind to hold your hand in an office is creepy.
    - toofy 4y ago
      no one is “demanding” someone “leave their families behind” to hold anyone’s hand in an office.
      - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
        The context here is of 'work from home' vs 'go to the office' because coworkers need you to socialize with them, so yes, some are indeed demanding that workers leave their families behind to come hold their hand in the office.
        krona 4y ago
        Where I work, family time is family time and work time is work time. Working from home should very little difference, and if it persistently does then that's a problem.
thatguy0900 4y ago
I've had many people I would consider work friends I was happy to see and talk to every day and even hang out with, but Noone I kept a friendship with after moving on. Feels like it crosses a line to me about work and life being separate things.
- patch_cable 4y ago
  On the contrary some of my best friends I’ve made at work and I continue to spend time with them years after we’ve all moved on to different jobs.
yrgulation 4y ago
Thats just creepy. Sounds a bit like a communist collective where everyone sleeps, works, eats and lives together. But no, we are not there for you. Build your own private life.
- patch_cable 4y ago
  Would you say the same about school?
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    I am not against making friends in either place. I am against demanding it, which forcing people into offices means.
    - patch_cable 4y ago
      I didn’t read anyone up the chain suggesting it be forced, just that there are some people who do like being together in person.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- unethical_ban 4y ago
  In places that don't suck, coworkers do support each other and are friendly, at least to some extent. Work is 1/3 of ones life. I don't get how many people are hostile to socialization during that time.
coffeeblack 4y ago
What about neighbors?

nu11ptr 4y ago

> but your coworkers are simply not there for that I've become friends with coworkers at every job I've been at. Most of the time when I leave that is pretty much it, but I've also retained some of those friendships for years now (one particular friend I go out with at least once a month still). Another group of friends from several jobs ago I try and meet up once a year at a particular conference we all attend - no, we aren't terribly close anymore but once we are back together it is like old times again. In summary, I don't think there is any need to create "rules" on such things. Some people might become friends with their coworkers and some might not. Social bonds are important, and there is no need to try and draw lines on which bonds are appropriate or not - everyone is capable of deciding this for themselves.

Telemoto 4y ago
I retained a few good friends from one particular small nerdy and young company. But I joined that company because of it. It was also very unique in itself. If Homeoffice would become the norm I could imagine actually enjoying the people who life around me. Due to covid I have seen much more of the people I actually life cloth. Neighbors etc. It would also be much cooler if friends would life closer to be able to meet up etc. But I still think it's

pastaguy1 4y ago

Something feels a little off in this particular case. I feel like there is an implied increase in flexibility with WFH for many of us here, but I doubt call center employees get that benefit at all.

nu11ptr 4y ago
They likely get some of that. For example, I do laundry, and for me, 70% of that is popping one load in the washer, transferring to the dryer and back out. After that, I quickly fold and put away. That sort of task could easily be done I suspect while on the phone with a wireless headset. There are probably other household tasks that don't take much brainpower that could be multitasked.