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The "starch heavy tubers" didn't exist in ancient times, they were mostly high fiber low starch-like food, totaly different than modern tubers like a potato. A

The "starch heavy tubers" didn't exist in ancient times, they were mostly high fiber low starch-like food, totaly different than modern tubers like a potato. Also: using carbon/nitrogen dating to detect what we ate goes back max 100k years, so we don't know what we ate before that based on the bones. Honey was pretty much the only ancient high-carb food. All modern high-starchy plants (rice, potatoes,...) are a modern "invention". Ancient fruit also had hardly any sugar and other than berries it didn't exist in any remotely similar form that we know today. Also using just one group that exists today (Hadza) is ridicoulous to generalize this to 100k+ years ago. These people usually say "see, we eat high carb because of dental residue from starches" but they forget that those starches at that time were extremely low carb.

adrian_b 4y ago
Even before cultivation, there were many fruits with high content of sugar, as can be seen today in various wild fruits. However, where you are right is that those wild fruits were much smaller than the present-day cultivated fruits, and their energy density was low anyway, due to the high water content, so gathering a quantity large enough to provide a significant fraction of the daily intake of energy for an animal of the size of a human would have required too much time to be a frequent occurrence. It is certain that humans have always enjoyed eating sweet wild fruits whenever they could find them, but they have never been able to survive without eating other food in much larger quantities.
gregwebs 4y ago
Fruit in nature is highly variable. I can't find a link to a paper that was published that showed that aboriginal fruit was on average a bit higher in sugar content than standard varieties. Here's a paper that came up in a quick search, and the main point is really that the sugar content is highly variable in nature, and some natural fruit are rich in sugar [1] Modern breeding does not have high sugar content as it's biggest priority but often instead focuses first on the ability to grow the plant in an agricultural system, sell it in a supermarket (durable in transport, avoid spoiling), and eat it conveniently (for example remove seeds). This includes reducing toxins and bitter flavors so that fruit can be picked before it is fully ripe. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0254629911000573 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S025462991...
petesergeant 4y ago
> The "starch heavy tubers" didn't exist in ancient times From Wikipedia: "In Central America, domesticated sweet potatoes were present at least 5,000 years ago" "Sweet potato has been radiocarbon-dated in the Cook Islands to 1210–1400 CE"
- adrian_b 4y ago
  I assume that the poster above has meant by "ancient times" a time before Neolithic, i.e. more than 10 thousand years ago. Obviously, there are wild plants with starchy tubers or roots, so they must have existed before the Neolithic. However, like also the wild fruits, the starchy tubers or roots of wild plants are usually much smaller than those of cultivated plants like potatoes or sweet potatoes. Therefore gathering enough starchy tubers or roots to feed a human would have been hard work. Nevertheless, that is still a method that is more likely to be able to provide enough food for a human, than gathering wild fruits.

adrian_b 4y ago

Even before cultivation, there were many fruits with high content of sugar, as can be seen today in various wild fruits. However, where you are right is that those wild fruits were much smaller than the present-day cultivated fruits, and their energy density was low anyway, due to the high water content, so gathering a quantity large enough to provide a significant fraction of the daily intake of energy for an animal of the size of a human would have required too much time to be a frequent occurrence. It is certain that humans have always enjoyed eating sweet wild fruits whenever they could find them, but they have never been able to survive without eating other food in much larger quantities.

gregwebs 4y ago

Fruit in nature is highly variable. I can't find a link to a paper that was published that showed that aboriginal fruit was on average a bit higher in sugar content than standard varieties. Here's a paper that came up in a quick search, and the main point is really that the sugar content is highly variable in nature, and some natural fruit are rich in sugar [1] Modern breeding does not have high sugar content as it's biggest priority but often instead focuses first on the ability to grow the plant in an agricultural system, sell it in a supermarket (durable in transport, avoid spoiling), and eat it conveniently (for example remove seeds). This includes reducing toxins and bitter flavors so that fruit can be picked before it is fully ripe. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0254629911000573 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S025462991...

petesergeant 4y ago

> The "starch heavy tubers" didn't exist in ancient times From Wikipedia: "In Central America, domesticated sweet potatoes were present at least 5,000 years ago" "Sweet potato has been radiocarbon-dated in the Cook Islands to 1210–1400 CE"

adrian_b 4y ago
I assume that the poster above has meant by "ancient times" a time before Neolithic, i.e. more than 10 thousand years ago. Obviously, there are wild plants with starchy tubers or roots, so they must have existed before the Neolithic. However, like also the wild fruits, the starchy tubers or roots of wild plants are usually much smaller than those of cultivated plants like potatoes or sweet potatoes. Therefore gathering enough starchy tubers or roots to feed a human would have been hard work. Nevertheless, that is still a method that is more likely to be able to provide enough food for a human, than gathering wild fruits.