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People reading what I write are frequently users of English as a second language. Expecting most of the English people to know obviate is pushing it, for someo

People reading what I write are frequently users of English as a second language. Expecting most of the English people to know obviate is pushing it, for someone using English as a second language it’s just adding complexity. It’s about aiming where you expect the average reader to be. Because you know the word don’t fall into the trap of assuming everyone else does.

groffee 4y ago
Treating everyone like an idiot is just doing you and them a disservice. The word exists for a reason, use it.
Shorel 4y ago
Many times it's the other way around. Obviate has several cognates in romance languages, so it is straightforward. Now, the phrasal verbs that are so obvious to a native speaker, these are the real head-scratchers. Or street slang. It may sound like dumbing it down to you, but it actually adds complexity for a non-native.
- Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
  Indeed. "Register": I immediately know what it means and it takes tenths of a second for me to make the decision to click (or not to). "Sign up": despite having a CEFR C2 level of English and using it at work every day, I still need to think for a few seconds if this is a registration or a login (cf. "sign in"). For a native speaker I suppose the latter is (marginally?) easier, but for a non-native, it's much harder, not even close.
  - jsjohnst 4y ago
    Your examples are very illustrative, but I would argue that both phrases suffer from being too generic. I wish that there wasn’t such a push for “one word” CTAs. Examples of alternatives I’d advocate for depending on context: “Create an account” “Subscribe to mailing list” “Submit contest entry”
retrac 4y ago
As a native speaker, it's very unpleasant to write like that. I will if necessary for effective communication, but it's like wearing a straitjacket. It can be awful to read, too. Rarer synonyms and the phrasal verbs (both commonly avoided in a simple style) are sometimes necessary to avoid excessive repetition. It is one of the downsides of being a native speaker. I write pretty much like how I speak. It's hard to use it like a foreign language, but that's what technical international English feels like to me, in a way. In my experience, fluent second language learners master that style more easily than native speakers do.

groffee 4y ago

Treating everyone like an idiot is just doing you and them a disservice. The word exists for a reason, use it.

Shorel 4y ago

Many times it's the other way around. Obviate has several cognates in romance languages, so it is straightforward. Now, the phrasal verbs that are so obvious to a native speaker, these are the real head-scratchers. Or street slang. It may sound like dumbing it down to you, but it actually adds complexity for a non-native.

Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
Indeed. "Register": I immediately know what it means and it takes tenths of a second for me to make the decision to click (or not to). "Sign up": despite having a CEFR C2 level of English and using it at work every day, I still need to think for a few seconds if this is a registration or a login (cf. "sign in"). For a native speaker I suppose the latter is (marginally?) easier, but for a non-native, it's much harder, not even close.
- jsjohnst 4y ago
  Your examples are very illustrative, but I would argue that both phrases suffer from being too generic. I wish that there wasn’t such a push for “one word” CTAs. Examples of alternatives I’d advocate for depending on context: “Create an account” “Subscribe to mailing list” “Submit contest entry”

retrac 4y ago

As a native speaker, it's very unpleasant to write like that. I will if necessary for effective communication, but it's like wearing a straitjacket. It can be awful to read, too. Rarer synonyms and the phrasal verbs (both commonly avoided in a simple style) are sometimes necessary to avoid excessive repetition. It is one of the downsides of being a native speaker. I write pretty much like how I speak. It's hard to use it like a foreign language, but that's what technical international English feels like to me, in a way. In my experience, fluent second language learners master that style more easily than native speakers do.