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I totally feel your pain and would feel exactly the same way in your shoes. This also ties into the broader problem of contractors treating their clients horrib

by Dig1t 4y ago

I totally feel your pain and would feel exactly the same way in your shoes. This also ties into the broader problem of contractors treating their clients horribly because their services are so in-demand. Basically, contractors can show up, do a horrible job, and they will completely disappear on you as soon as they get their money. There's so much demand in their industry that all the best people are working on high paying corporate job sites (like building hospitals and new FAANG campuses), that the average homeowner is left dealing with garbage companies who treat their clients like shit. Hopefully rising mortgage rates and falling house prices can cool demand a little and we can get some decently competent contractors again. WRT solar, I was super impressed with jerryrigeverything's solar installation that he did himself. Basically you can get a kit that you install yourself and it's much cheaper than having a garbage contractor rip you off and ruin your roof in the process. His video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa1tvrrFZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa1tvrrFZg

bombcar 4y ago
If you can find a contractor you can trust, even if they're not versed in the installation of solar, you can work with them. I'd much rather have an electrician and roofer that I trust work on a kit like that than depend on some random contractor I don't know.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Right—contractors are fine, it's GCs that (mostly—I'm sure exceptions exist) blow. I'd rejected GC bids for things before because they were crazy-expensive and they were proposing mediocre work despite their very high rate, then gone on to basically GC the project myself, engaging contractors for most of it and DIYing a few things here and there, and those have all been great. My mistake was making an exception this time, I guess, but OTOH the savings from solar also wouldn't have been worth it if I'd had to do that, even with a hypothetically-cheaper installation cost, so I'd not have done the project at all in that case. As it is I don't see how the system won't end up losing us money by the time everything's accounted. Probably 5-10 years off our roof lifetime even if they fix all the acute damage but don't do a full replacement (I very much doubt they'll do that without us spending more money fighting for it than it's worth), plus it'll cost more to replace when it's time because of the damn panels. But they didn't like our proposal that they take it all down (which they'll have to do to fix the roof anyway—it's bad), fix our roof, take all the equipment back and zero out our bill so we can all pretend this never happened. Sigh. Been up for weeks and still hasn't generated a single goddamn watt of power so far, either. The IoT shitware refuses to do its job and of course they're not in any hurry to get out and fix it. Pretty sure it's gonna end up with attorneys involved, which is something I've managed to avoid my whole life so far and I'm dreading. Blue Raven Solar, for the record. May as well name-n-shame, but my understanding is this kind of thing's extremely common in the solar industry so it's not just them. I suspect heavily-astroturfed reviews, in their case. Again, I really should have known better. One point of advice for others: call out a roof person you trust before starting one of these projects. Ours, it turns out, would have told us our roof was too steep to safely install solar on without totally fucking up the shingles in the process, and that would have been the end of it. [EDIT] Heh, incidentally I think the near-impossibility of putting the panels back up without wrecking the roof again is what might save us and get them to back out the whole project. IDK how they're gonna re-install the system after the roof's fixed.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Yeah, a good GC is either so astronomically expensive you can't even talk to their lawyer's cat, or simply not to be found (or you marry one or into the family). I would get legal involved sooner rather than later; but a good lawyer can be as hard to find as a good GC. Maybe you should just get the roof fixed and sell the house and try again.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      > Maybe you should just get the roof fixed and sell the house and try again. LOL, the "unplug it and plug it back in" of major house mistakes, I guess.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        Real talk, if it isn't obvious foundation damage and the roof isn't currently on fire, it'll probably sell just fine. You can hire a home inspector after it's "fixed" and see what he says. Just disclose that you have solar and that you had an issue and it was resolved, provide paperwork, and most people will yawn.
        ethbr0 4y ago
        Side note: home inspectors are typically lazy GCs who realized it was easier money. They're not actually liable for anything more detailed than what you could notice yourself, which... why are you paying them again?
        yamtaddle 4y ago
        When buying houses, I've really only hired them because I don't want to get on a roof myself if I don't have to :-) Or crawl around in an attic, for that matter. Most folks are pretty bad at spotting problems with houses, because they simply don't know what to look for (and why would they? It's hard to know everything), so an inspector's probably a good idea. Me, I spend the entire time at an AirBnB distracted by noticing every single place work wasn't done quite right, every cut corner or lazy shortcut, every interesting (or "interesting") material choice, "oh, looks like they replaced this shower insert but didn't want to fully redo the drywall so took the lazy route and added trim", "uh oh, this tile shower floor has serious drainage problems", "interesting, this doorway must have been added", et c., but most people aren't like that.

by Dig1t 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago

If you can find a contractor you can trust, even if they're not versed in the installation of solar, you can work with them. I'd much rather have an electrician and roofer that I trust work on a kit like that than depend on some random contractor I don't know.

yamtaddle 4y ago
Right—contractors are fine, it's GCs that (mostly—I'm sure exceptions exist) blow. I'd rejected GC bids for things before because they were crazy-expensive and they were proposing mediocre work despite their very high rate, then gone on to basically GC the project myself, engaging contractors for most of it and DIYing a few things here and there, and those have all been great. My mistake was making an exception this time, I guess, but OTOH the savings from solar also wouldn't have been worth it if I'd had to do that, even with a hypothetically-cheaper installation cost, so I'd not have done the project at all in that case. As it is I don't see how the system won't end up losing us money by the time everything's accounted. Probably 5-10 years off our roof lifetime even if they fix all the acute damage but don't do a full replacement (I very much doubt they'll do that without us spending more money fighting for it than it's worth), plus it'll cost more to replace when it's time because of the damn panels. But they didn't like our proposal that they take it all down (which they'll have to do to fix the roof anyway—it's bad), fix our roof, take all the equipment back and zero out our bill so we can all pretend this never happened. Sigh. Been up for weeks and still hasn't generated a single goddamn watt of power so far, either. The IoT shitware refuses to do its job and of course they're not in any hurry to get out and fix it. Pretty sure it's gonna end up with attorneys involved, which is something I've managed to avoid my whole life so far and I'm dreading. Blue Raven Solar, for the record. May as well name-n-shame, but my understanding is this kind of thing's extremely common in the solar industry so it's not just them. I suspect heavily-astroturfed reviews, in their case. Again, I really should have known better. One point of advice for others: call out a roof person you trust before starting one of these projects. Ours, it turns out, would have told us our roof was too steep to safely install solar on without totally fucking up the shingles in the process, and that would have been the end of it. [EDIT] Heh, incidentally I think the near-impossibility of putting the panels back up without wrecking the roof again is what might save us and get them to back out the whole project. IDK how they're gonna re-install the system after the roof's fixed.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Yeah, a good GC is either so astronomically expensive you can't even talk to their lawyer's cat, or simply not to be found (or you marry one or into the family). I would get legal involved sooner rather than later; but a good lawyer can be as hard to find as a good GC. Maybe you should just get the roof fixed and sell the house and try again.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    > Maybe you should just get the roof fixed and sell the house and try again. LOL, the "unplug it and plug it back in" of major house mistakes, I guess.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Real talk, if it isn't obvious foundation damage and the roof isn't currently on fire, it'll probably sell just fine. You can hire a home inspector after it's "fixed" and see what he says. Just disclose that you have solar and that you had an issue and it was resolved, provide paperwork, and most people will yawn.
      - ethbr0 4y ago
        Side note: home inspectors are typically lazy GCs who realized it was easier money. They're not actually liable for anything more detailed than what you could notice yourself, which... why are you paying them again?
        yamtaddle 4y ago
        When buying houses, I've really only hired them because I don't want to get on a roof myself if I don't have to :-) Or crawl around in an attic, for that matter. Most folks are pretty bad at spotting problems with houses, because they simply don't know what to look for (and why would they? It's hard to know everything), so an inspector's probably a good idea. Me, I spend the entire time at an AirBnB distracted by noticing every single place work wasn't done quite right, every cut corner or lazy shortcut, every interesting (or "interesting") material choice, "oh, looks like they replaced this shower insert but didn't want to fully redo the drywall so took the lazy route and added trim", "uh oh, this tile shower floor has serious drainage problems", "interesting, this doorway must have been added", et c., but most people aren't like that.