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We just got a rooftop system from a very hands-off GC-type company and I'm so pissed off about it. If I'd known in advance it'd have multiple Internet of Shit

We just got a rooftop system from a very hands-off GC-type company and I'm so pissed off about it. If I'd known in advance it'd have multiple Internet of Shit crapware devices attached that'll probably stop working in 5 years and require expensive replacement and renovation to keep working past that, and that it can't produce power at all unless those pieces of near-future landfill rubbish are happy, I'd 1000% never have gotten it. Mea culpa—I guess I should have asked, but it just never occurred to me—but I'm fucking never getting another solar system unless I install it myself. There are other problems (that have solidified my usual preference not to let someone else GC a project for me, because they usually just skim money and do a terrible job—they fucked up our roof bad, for one thing, many thousands of dollars of damage so now we get to sort that out too, the hassle's not worth a few hundred in savings per year assuming all else goes well which at this point I'm sure it will not) but IoT shitware would have been a deal-breaker on its own if I'd known it required that to function, not just for monitoring or whatever.

Dig1t 4y ago
I totally feel your pain and would feel exactly the same way in your shoes. This also ties into the broader problem of contractors treating their clients horribly because their services are so in-demand. Basically, contractors can show up, do a horrible job, and they will completely disappear on you as soon as they get their money. There's so much demand in their industry that all the best people are working on high paying corporate job sites (like building hospitals and new FAANG campuses), that the average homeowner is left dealing with garbage companies who treat their clients like shit. Hopefully rising mortgage rates and falling house prices can cool demand a little and we can get some decently competent contractors again. WRT solar, I was super impressed with jerryrigeverything's solar installation that he did himself. Basically you can get a kit that you install yourself and it's much cheaper than having a garbage contractor rip you off and ruin your roof in the process. His video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa1tvrrFZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa1tvrrFZg
- bombcar 4y ago
  If you can find a contractor you can trust, even if they're not versed in the installation of solar, you can work with them. I'd much rather have an electrician and roofer that I trust work on a kit like that than depend on some random contractor I don't know.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Right—contractors are fine, it's GCs that (mostly—I'm sure exceptions exist) blow. I'd rejected GC bids for things before because they were crazy-expensive and they were proposing mediocre work despite their very high rate, then gone on to basically GC the project myself, engaging contractors for most of it and DIYing a few things here and there, and those have all been great. My mistake was making an exception this time, I guess, but OTOH the savings from solar also wouldn't have been worth it if I'd had to do that, even with a hypothetically-cheaper installation cost, so I'd not have done the project at all in that case. As it is I don't see how the system won't end up losing us money by the time everything's accounted. Probably 5-10 years off our roof lifetime even if they fix all the acute damage but don't do a full replacement (I very much doubt they'll do that without us spending more money fighting for it than it's worth), plus it'll cost more to replace when it's time because of the damn panels. But they didn't like our proposal that they take it all down (which they'll have to do to fix the roof anyway—it's bad), fix our roof, take all the equipment back and zero out our bill so we can all pretend this never happened. Sigh. Been up for weeks and still hasn't generated a single goddamn watt of power so far, either. The IoT shitware refuses to do its job and of course they're not in any hurry to get out and fix it. Pretty sure it's gonna end up with attorneys involved, which is something I've managed to avoid my whole life so far and I'm dreading. Blue Raven Solar, for the record. May as well name-n-shame, but my understanding is this kind of thing's extremely common in the solar industry so it's not just them. I suspect heavily-astroturfed reviews, in their case. Again, I really should have known better. One point of advice for others: call out a roof person you trust before starting one of these projects. Ours, it turns out, would have told us our roof was too steep to safely install solar on without totally fucking up the shingles in the process, and that would have been the end of it. [EDIT] Heh, incidentally I think the near-impossibility of putting the panels back up without wrecking the roof again is what might save us and get them to back out the whole project. IDK how they're gonna re-install the system after the roof's fixed.
jonnycoder 4y ago
It was paused but California was proposing Net Metering 3.0 rules in which you would have to pay $10/mo for each kw/hr of grid-tied solar panels. So for a small 5kw/hr panel setup (15 panels at 370w each), they proposed that new solar homeowners would pay $50/month to PG&E simply for having 15 panels. Most people I know have double or triple that. Will Prowse on Youtube has great videos on off grid solar including equipment that is all UL certified. Getting over the hurdle of roof mounting panels or ground mounting up to code (seems to mainly be around using conduit for the wiring), I could buy a pallet of 10 solar panels, a converter/invetor all in one from EG4, and an EG4 5kw lithium iron phosphate battery for around $6000. Battery: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48v-100ah/ https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48... Offgrid Converter: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-6-5k-off-grid-inverter-6500ex-48/ https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-6-5k-off-grid-inverter-6500ex...
- RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
  After going with Tesla panels, this is my plan next time. I could have had 3x the system for 1/2 the price. At that cost/ scale I could truly be off the grid.
  - pridkett 4y ago
    Funny thing I look at Tesla and my system and I’m seeing that my all in price for my panels + 3 powerwalls in 2020 is within 10% of what people in my town talk about paying for panels today. A lot of that cost gets eaten by installation and inefficient practices. I’m kinda with you on building my own off grid system - but, I don’t think I would’ve had the know how of where to start without the knowledge I got from getting my Tesla system installed.
    - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
      Yep. I'm also planning on bumping the size by a pretty large amount. I love my tesla system, but I should have gone about 50% larger in both battery and panels.
- 4y ago
marssaxman 4y ago
It would never have occurred to me, either! There was certainly none of that crap attached a decade ago when I had solar installed on my previous house. Glad to know this is something to screen for - but chagrined that it exists, naturally.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Whenever quoting an install of basically anything, ask for the list of part numbers, and then you can look them up yourself. My furnace and AC have no internet connection; the thermostat I installed myself does.
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    Why did you choose an internet-connected thermostat?
    - bombcar 4y ago
      I got a discount on it and a discount to have it (which doesn’t seem to actually change what it does) and I can change it from my phone. None of which is exceptionally amazing and if it annoys me it gets replaced with a mercury switch. Since I’m WFH and the house is always occupied and it has one zone none of the supposed energy saving stuff really applies.

Dig1t 4y ago

I totally feel your pain and would feel exactly the same way in your shoes. This also ties into the broader problem of contractors treating their clients horribly because their services are so in-demand. Basically, contractors can show up, do a horrible job, and they will completely disappear on you as soon as they get their money. There's so much demand in their industry that all the best people are working on high paying corporate job sites (like building hospitals and new FAANG campuses), that the average homeowner is left dealing with garbage companies who treat their clients like shit. Hopefully rising mortgage rates and falling house prices can cool demand a little and we can get some decently competent contractors again. WRT solar, I was super impressed with jerryrigeverything's solar installation that he did himself. Basically you can get a kit that you install yourself and it's much cheaper than having a garbage contractor rip you off and ruin your roof in the process. His video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa1tvrrFZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSa1tvrrFZg

bombcar 4y ago
If you can find a contractor you can trust, even if they're not versed in the installation of solar, you can work with them. I'd much rather have an electrician and roofer that I trust work on a kit like that than depend on some random contractor I don't know.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Right—contractors are fine, it's GCs that (mostly—I'm sure exceptions exist) blow. I'd rejected GC bids for things before because they were crazy-expensive and they were proposing mediocre work despite their very high rate, then gone on to basically GC the project myself, engaging contractors for most of it and DIYing a few things here and there, and those have all been great. My mistake was making an exception this time, I guess, but OTOH the savings from solar also wouldn't have been worth it if I'd had to do that, even with a hypothetically-cheaper installation cost, so I'd not have done the project at all in that case. As it is I don't see how the system won't end up losing us money by the time everything's accounted. Probably 5-10 years off our roof lifetime even if they fix all the acute damage but don't do a full replacement (I very much doubt they'll do that without us spending more money fighting for it than it's worth), plus it'll cost more to replace when it's time because of the damn panels. But they didn't like our proposal that they take it all down (which they'll have to do to fix the roof anyway—it's bad), fix our roof, take all the equipment back and zero out our bill so we can all pretend this never happened. Sigh. Been up for weeks and still hasn't generated a single goddamn watt of power so far, either. The IoT shitware refuses to do its job and of course they're not in any hurry to get out and fix it. Pretty sure it's gonna end up with attorneys involved, which is something I've managed to avoid my whole life so far and I'm dreading. Blue Raven Solar, for the record. May as well name-n-shame, but my understanding is this kind of thing's extremely common in the solar industry so it's not just them. I suspect heavily-astroturfed reviews, in their case. Again, I really should have known better. One point of advice for others: call out a roof person you trust before starting one of these projects. Ours, it turns out, would have told us our roof was too steep to safely install solar on without totally fucking up the shingles in the process, and that would have been the end of it. [EDIT] Heh, incidentally I think the near-impossibility of putting the panels back up without wrecking the roof again is what might save us and get them to back out the whole project. IDK how they're gonna re-install the system after the roof's fixed.

jonnycoder 4y ago

It was paused but California was proposing Net Metering 3.0 rules in which you would have to pay $10/mo for each kw/hr of grid-tied solar panels. So for a small 5kw/hr panel setup (15 panels at 370w each), they proposed that new solar homeowners would pay $50/month to PG&E simply for having 15 panels. Most people I know have double or triple that. Will Prowse on Youtube has great videos on off grid solar including equipment that is all UL certified. Getting over the hurdle of roof mounting panels or ground mounting up to code (seems to mainly be around using conduit for the wiring), I could buy a pallet of 10 solar panels, a converter/invetor all in one from EG4, and an EG4 5kw lithium iron phosphate battery for around $6000. Battery: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48v-100ah/ https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48... Offgrid Converter: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-6-5k-off-grid-inverter-6500ex-48/ https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-6-5k-off-grid-inverter-6500ex...

RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
After going with Tesla panels, this is my plan next time. I could have had 3x the system for 1/2 the price. At that cost/ scale I could truly be off the grid.
- pridkett 4y ago
  Funny thing I look at Tesla and my system and I’m seeing that my all in price for my panels + 3 powerwalls in 2020 is within 10% of what people in my town talk about paying for panels today. A lot of that cost gets eaten by installation and inefficient practices. I’m kinda with you on building my own off grid system - but, I don’t think I would’ve had the know how of where to start without the knowledge I got from getting my Tesla system installed.
  - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
    Yep. I'm also planning on bumping the size by a pretty large amount. I love my tesla system, but I should have gone about 50% larger in both battery and panels.
4y ago

marssaxman 4y ago

It would never have occurred to me, either! There was certainly none of that crap attached a decade ago when I had solar installed on my previous house. Glad to know this is something to screen for - but chagrined that it exists, naturally.

bombcar 4y ago
Whenever quoting an install of basically anything, ask for the list of part numbers, and then you can look them up yourself. My furnace and AC have no internet connection; the thermostat I installed myself does.
- marssaxman 4y ago
  Why did you choose an internet-connected thermostat?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    I got a discount on it and a discount to have it (which doesn’t seem to actually change what it does) and I can change it from my phone. None of which is exceptionally amazing and if it annoys me it gets replaced with a mercury switch. Since I’m WFH and the house is always occupied and it has one zone none of the supposed energy saving stuff really applies.