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I have a Fronius inverter which has both WiFi and Ethernet - but works perfectly well without it. My installer said that they need access to the inverter durin

by edent 4y ago

I have a Fronius inverter which has both WiFi and Ethernet - but works perfectly well without it. My installer said that they need access to the inverter during set-up in order to configure it properly, but after that it could be disconnected. Personally, I use it to get firmware updates and to use the API in order to monitor it. Although, that said, I'm not sure what sort of security issues you're imagining. There's no privacy issue - the inverter only has data on what you've generated.

bombcar 4y ago
One obvious one is if the panels can see the load to the house, they can determine occupancy. There are devices that can monitor your breaker box and tell you when appliances have turned on. You could perhaps prevent this by having it dump everything between the meter and the house so it can't tell if it's going to the grid or not. I don't know enough about it to say if that's reasonable.
ASalazarMX 4y ago
I guess they're more worried about what degree of control their cloud has over the device, and since it upgrades trough the Internet, I guess they have potentially absolute control. The idea is minimizing the risk a device like this would become if compromised.
- edent 4y ago
  Sure. But that also has to be weighed up against the risk that the device has a firmware bug which will render it inoperable. Or that a potential fault won't be identified and the owner won't be alerted. There are risks on both sides. But, in the UK at least, there are several inverters which don't require an IP address.
- tpxl 4y ago
  My parents have an internet controlled heat pump. It works fine without, but you basically can't change the settings locally. A couple of years ago they bricked it, charged us 400€ for 'repairs' which did jack squat, then it magically started working a few weeks later. Don't buy internet connected appliances.
  - f1shy 4y ago
    I just keep away of anything requiring an app or internet connection. I just can't wait until this IoT hype comes to an end...
  - Froedlich 4y ago
    Three years ago I bought a small window air conditioner. It came with the usual front panel controls and a remote. The remote turns it on and off and lets you set temperature and fan speed, which is all I expect of a remote. However, it requires an Apple or Android smartphone, their phone app, and internet access to access "extra functions", none of which were described in useful detail in the sparse documentation that came with it. No, I'll just use the remote. An acquaintance was telling me about the new RV she and her husband bought. It has a brake controller for trailer brakes. Not unusual, I have them on two of my vehicles; there's a big lever to manually apply the brakes and a "gain" control to adjust how rapidly they apply. But her RV's brake controller is only controllable through a smartphone, apparently. A few years ago I went to the store to buy a new alarm clock. All the clocks they had for sale were just Bluetooth accessories for a smartphone. Not particularly useful when there's no smartphone to link to it, and ignoring the question of why you wouldn't just use the phone's alarm instead.
SyneRyder 4y ago
As far as security - Fronius inverters (and other manufacturers) have a built-in API for remote shutdown / remotely disconnecting the solar power at your house. Some countries have so much household solar power that the solar feed-in can overload the power grid. Governments have required the ability to remotely deactivate a user's solar system to prevent grid overload & maintain grid viability. Here's a Fronius document on the remote disconnect API setup: [PDF] https://www.fronius.com/~/downloads/Solar%20Energy/Quick%20Guides/SE_QG_SA_Gov_Smarter_Homes_SAPN_Fronius_Remote%20Disconnect%20Setup_EN_AU.pdf https://www.fronius.com/~/downloads/Solar%20Energy/Quick%20G... "This Application Guide describes the procedure to setup a Fronius inverter system to comply with the SA Smarter Homes regulation of remote disconnect/reconnect when selecting the “SA Power Networks / Fronius –Fronius – API control of internet connected Fronius” Relevant Agent option." Here's a Fronius webinar (audio with slides, hour long) discussing the remote disconnect functions, jump to 2:42 if the link doesn't automatically take you there. The first couple of minutes should give the overview: https://youtu.be/KR8jxANwii4?t=162 https://youtu.be/KR8jxANwii4?t=162

by edent 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago

One obvious one is if the panels can see the load to the house, they can determine occupancy. There are devices that can monitor your breaker box and tell you when appliances have turned on. You could perhaps prevent this by having it dump everything between the meter and the house so it can't tell if it's going to the grid or not. I don't know enough about it to say if that's reasonable.

ASalazarMX 4y ago

I guess they're more worried about what degree of control their cloud has over the device, and since it upgrades trough the Internet, I guess they have potentially absolute control. The idea is minimizing the risk a device like this would become if compromised.

edent 4y ago
Sure. But that also has to be weighed up against the risk that the device has a firmware bug which will render it inoperable. Or that a potential fault won't be identified and the owner won't be alerted. There are risks on both sides. But, in the UK at least, there are several inverters which don't require an IP address.
tpxl 4y ago
My parents have an internet controlled heat pump. It works fine without, but you basically can't change the settings locally. A couple of years ago they bricked it, charged us 400€ for 'repairs' which did jack squat, then it magically started working a few weeks later. Don't buy internet connected appliances.
- f1shy 4y ago
  I just keep away of anything requiring an app or internet connection. I just can't wait until this IoT hype comes to an end...
- Froedlich 4y ago
  Three years ago I bought a small window air conditioner. It came with the usual front panel controls and a remote. The remote turns it on and off and lets you set temperature and fan speed, which is all I expect of a remote. However, it requires an Apple or Android smartphone, their phone app, and internet access to access "extra functions", none of which were described in useful detail in the sparse documentation that came with it. No, I'll just use the remote. An acquaintance was telling me about the new RV she and her husband bought. It has a brake controller for trailer brakes. Not unusual, I have them on two of my vehicles; there's a big lever to manually apply the brakes and a "gain" control to adjust how rapidly they apply. But her RV's brake controller is only controllable through a smartphone, apparently. A few years ago I went to the store to buy a new alarm clock. All the clocks they had for sale were just Bluetooth accessories for a smartphone. Not particularly useful when there's no smartphone to link to it, and ignoring the question of why you wouldn't just use the phone's alarm instead.

SyneRyder 4y ago

As far as security - Fronius inverters (and other manufacturers) have a built-in API for remote shutdown / remotely disconnecting the solar power at your house. Some countries have so much household solar power that the solar feed-in can overload the power grid. Governments have required the ability to remotely deactivate a user's solar system to prevent grid overload & maintain grid viability. Here's a Fronius document on the remote disconnect API setup: [PDF] https://www.fronius.com/~/downloads/Solar%20Energy/Quick%20Guides/SE_QG_SA_Gov_Smarter_Homes_SAPN_Fronius_Remote%20Disconnect%20Setup_EN_AU.pdf https://www.fronius.com/~/downloads/Solar%20Energy/Quick%20G... "This Application Guide describes the procedure to setup a Fronius inverter system to comply with the SA Smarter Homes regulation of remote disconnect/reconnect when selecting the “SA Power Networks / Fronius –Fronius – API control of internet connected Fronius” Relevant Agent option." Here's a Fronius webinar (audio with slides, hour long) discussing the remote disconnect functions, jump to 2:42 if the link doesn't automatically take you there. The first couple of minutes should give the overview: https://youtu.be/KR8jxANwii4?t=162 https://youtu.be/KR8jxANwii4?t=162