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Smurfing being seen as something to be reduced/eliminated is also a very new concept to me. When I played MMORPGs, having a smurf (or "alt") account was VERY co

by branon 4y ago

Smurfing being seen as something to be reduced/eliminated is also a very new concept to me. When I played MMORPGs, having a smurf (or "alt") account was VERY commonplace, it was simply an alternative way to play the game. Now, increasingly, the context seems to be that it's unacceptable/unfair for some reason. This feels wrong to me. If I can't play the game the way _I_ want to play, what use is it as a recreational activity? It's supposed to be a "game" after all so I don't understand where are all the rules and revisions are coming from. It must be because encountering alt accounts in an open-world MMO is very different than being paired with smurf accounts in a competitive matchmaking system. This I can understand, but I hope the anti-smurf thing doesn't go _too_ far. Alt accounts are the only way to re-experience the bottom of the ladder/beginning of the story in certain types of games.

bombcar 4y ago
People complain about smurfing because mediocre players don't want to be matched against good players (but they will always complain that someone who wins is a smurf). It's only because matchmaking has gotten so good that it's even a problem. In the old days you matched with whoever was available and that was that. Smurfs are also different from alts in my mind at least, an alt is something like a low level WoW character when you have a main that is max level; a smurf is more like Carlsen signing up for a chess.com account under an assumed name to gleefully squish people until his rating gets high enough, then starting another account. It only really works in games where each "match" starts off fresh for both players.
- jwilber 4y ago
  Playing a Smurf vs playing someone at your skill level in competitive is a completely different experience. An enemy widow sniping your entire team over-and-over again is not the same as going overtime and nearly drawing a payload nap. I’m wondering if you even play overwatch?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    I'm agreeing that Smurfs are a problem, I'm willing to help develop an AI to detect unexpected above average skill and boot those players, we'll call it Gargamel.
xboxnolifes 4y ago
MMOs (the current mainstream variety) are completely different games. That's why alts in MMOs are not called smurfs. This should be blindingly clear. Smurfs in competitive shooters suck because the only reason you make a Smurf is to play in ranked lobbies of much lower skill level, ruining the experience for those who are actually playing around their rank level.
filoleg 4y ago
> Now, increasingly, the context seems to be that it's unacceptable/unfair for some reason. This feels wrong to me. The context in which "smurf" is used these days is very different. But if you try to look at it from the original MMO definition of that term, that would explain why it might feel wrong to you. In an MMO, people refer to using many characters on one account as smurfing. That's not the case with competitive multiplayer games, where it refers specifically to using a separate account to get (initially) put in a matchmaking pool with lower-skill people, in order to "have fun" obliterating them. As opposed to playing with people of your skill on your regular account with a calibrated MMR. In an MMO, having a smurf doesn't ruin anything for anyone else. It is just a way to play a different character class, how else is a person supposed to do it? Asking users to restrict themselves to playing only one character class (e.g., mage) forever out of many available in the game is just strange. You still have to level up that smurf character, collect appropriate gear, etc. In a competitive multiplayer game, like CSGO/League of Legends/Overwatch, etc., none of this is the case. You can play any character on one account. You aren't expected to play one character forever, that would make zero sense in a game like League. What smurfing refers to here is existing players with high MMR creating a separate fresh account, and tearing through new players (because new accounts, rightfully, get placed in a lower MMR matchmaking pool, along with other new players). It is basically an equivalent of Mike Tyson disguising himself perfectly to look like a newbie, and then going to a local boxing gym and just beating everyone there within an inch of death in the ring. This is the context in which smurfing is being discussed these days as a negative, and I agree with this stance. Your example of smurfing in an MMO, however, is perfectly valid and causes no harm, so it is totally fine.
- q-big 4y ago
  > What smurfing refers to here is existing players with high MMR creating a separate fresh account, and tearing through new players (because new accounts, rightfully, get placed in a lower MMR matchmaking pool, along with other new players). Considering the example that you just gave, the word "rightfully" in "because new accounts, rightfully, get placed in a lower MMR matchmaking pool, along with other new players" is exactly the bug in the game code that enables smurfing. If such new players with win streaks far above than what is to be expected by their level ranked up very fast (and if they are not that good, get thus "picked apart"), smurfing "to have fun killing some low-level players" would be impeded by a lot.
henriquecm8 4y ago
Because in a MMO you would start a new character from scratch and most of "power" is tied to the character's items. Games like Overwatch is skill based and have a skill-based matchmaking, a new player will play with other beginners, and as they get better the game will put them in matches with better opponents. A smurf in this context is someone that is already really good in the game, but because they just created a new account, they are put in matches with beginners just so they can steamroll them. And takes a good while for their account to reach the same rank as their main account. While in MMOs there's still some skill involved, but it's much harder to compete with someone is better items, compare to Overwatch where two players with the same character have the same everything it all comes down to the player skill. >If I can't play the game the way _I_ want to play, what use is it as a recreational activity? It's supposed to be a "game" after all so I don't understand where are all the rules and revisions are coming from. I would argue that competitive games are less about recreation and more about getting good, which can be fun, but that seems to be secondary.
haswell 4y ago
Have to agree with the sibling that smurf != alt. I have and use alt accounts. I have two Overwatch accounts, but they’re around the same rank. I don’t intentionally go and play against players far below my rank for the sole purpose of being a troll and destroying the game for others. Smurfs are another thing entirely. Some games like Rocket League have become borderline unplayable since going F2P because smurfs are everywhere in competitive. I once went on a 15 game losing streak with every one of those losses involving an obvious smurf. And I’m not talking about “they were just a better team” kind of matches - these were players that come in and 1v3 the entire other team, and who clearly are playing with game mechanics only found at the highest levels of the game - and I am not one of those pro level players. And these aren’t just people with an alt account. They’re people on their 20th account (because the others have been rightly banned), and it ruins the game. Smurfs existed when the game still cost money, but skyrocketed as soon as it didn’t. Having an alt should should still be fairly easy. Getting a 2nd phone number isn’t hard with various VOIP options.

by branon 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago

People complain about smurfing because mediocre players don't want to be matched against good players (but they will always complain that someone who wins is a smurf). It's only because matchmaking has gotten so good that it's even a problem. In the old days you matched with whoever was available and that was that. Smurfs are also different from alts in my mind at least, an alt is something like a low level WoW character when you have a main that is max level; a smurf is more like Carlsen signing up for a chess.com account under an assumed name to gleefully squish people until his rating gets high enough, then starting another account. It only really works in games where each "match" starts off fresh for both players.

jwilber 4y ago
Playing a Smurf vs playing someone at your skill level in competitive is a completely different experience. An enemy widow sniping your entire team over-and-over again is not the same as going overtime and nearly drawing a payload nap. I’m wondering if you even play overwatch?
- bombcar 4y ago
  I'm agreeing that Smurfs are a problem, I'm willing to help develop an AI to detect unexpected above average skill and boot those players, we'll call it Gargamel.

xboxnolifes 4y ago

MMOs (the current mainstream variety) are completely different games. That's why alts in MMOs are not called smurfs. This should be blindingly clear. Smurfs in competitive shooters suck because the only reason you make a Smurf is to play in ranked lobbies of much lower skill level, ruining the experience for those who are actually playing around their rank level.

filoleg 4y ago

> Now, increasingly, the context seems to be that it's unacceptable/unfair for some reason. This feels wrong to me. The context in which "smurf" is used these days is very different. But if you try to look at it from the original MMO definition of that term, that would explain why it might feel wrong to you. In an MMO, people refer to using many characters on one account as smurfing. That's not the case with competitive multiplayer games, where it refers specifically to using a separate account to get (initially) put in a matchmaking pool with lower-skill people, in order to "have fun" obliterating them. As opposed to playing with people of your skill on your regular account with a calibrated MMR. In an MMO, having a smurf doesn't ruin anything for anyone else. It is just a way to play a different character class, how else is a person supposed to do it? Asking users to restrict themselves to playing only one character class (e.g., mage) forever out of many available in the game is just strange. You still have to level up that smurf character, collect appropriate gear, etc. In a competitive multiplayer game, like CSGO/League of Legends/Overwatch, etc., none of this is the case. You can play any character on one account. You aren't expected to play one character forever, that would make zero sense in a game like League. What smurfing refers to here is existing players with high MMR creating a separate fresh account, and tearing through new players (because new accounts, rightfully, get placed in a lower MMR matchmaking pool, along with other new players). It is basically an equivalent of Mike Tyson disguising himself perfectly to look like a newbie, and then going to a local boxing gym and just beating everyone there within an inch of death in the ring. This is the context in which smurfing is being discussed these days as a negative, and I agree with this stance. Your example of smurfing in an MMO, however, is perfectly valid and causes no harm, so it is totally fine.

q-big 4y ago
> What smurfing refers to here is existing players with high MMR creating a separate fresh account, and tearing through new players (because new accounts, rightfully, get placed in a lower MMR matchmaking pool, along with other new players). Considering the example that you just gave, the word "rightfully" in "because new accounts, rightfully, get placed in a lower MMR matchmaking pool, along with other new players" is exactly the bug in the game code that enables smurfing. If such new players with win streaks far above than what is to be expected by their level ranked up very fast (and if they are not that good, get thus "picked apart"), smurfing "to have fun killing some low-level players" would be impeded by a lot.

henriquecm8 4y ago

Because in a MMO you would start a new character from scratch and most of "power" is tied to the character's items. Games like Overwatch is skill based and have a skill-based matchmaking, a new player will play with other beginners, and as they get better the game will put them in matches with better opponents. A smurf in this context is someone that is already really good in the game, but because they just created a new account, they are put in matches with beginners just so they can steamroll them. And takes a good while for their account to reach the same rank as their main account. While in MMOs there's still some skill involved, but it's much harder to compete with someone is better items, compare to Overwatch where two players with the same character have the same everything it all comes down to the player skill. >If I can't play the game the way _I_ want to play, what use is it as a recreational activity? It's supposed to be a "game" after all so I don't understand where are all the rules and revisions are coming from. I would argue that competitive games are less about recreation and more about getting good, which can be fun, but that seems to be secondary.

haswell 4y ago

Have to agree with the sibling that smurf != alt. I have and use alt accounts. I have two Overwatch accounts, but they’re around the same rank. I don’t intentionally go and play against players far below my rank for the sole purpose of being a troll and destroying the game for others. Smurfs are another thing entirely. Some games like Rocket League have become borderline unplayable since going F2P because smurfs are everywhere in competitive. I once went on a 15 game losing streak with every one of those losses involving an obvious smurf. And I’m not talking about “they were just a better team” kind of matches - these were players that come in and 1v3 the entire other team, and who clearly are playing with game mechanics only found at the highest levels of the game - and I am not one of those pro level players. And these aren’t just people with an alt account. They’re people on their 20th account (because the others have been rightly banned), and it ruins the game. Smurfs existed when the game still cost money, but skyrocketed as soon as it didn’t. Having an alt should should still be fairly easy. Getting a 2nd phone number isn’t hard with various VOIP options.