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Perhaps you did not note that the banned person was 16 years old. There should be very few actions with life long consequences for any 16 year old. Their pref

Perhaps you did not note that the banned person was 16 years old. There should be very few actions with life long consequences for any 16 year old. Their prefrontal cortex is not fully developed. They experiment and engage with the world to learn its boundaries and limits. Click fraud for $80 when 16yo does not warrant a lifetime ban.

doodlesdev 4y ago
I beg do differ. When I was a kid I used to have a YouTube channel with AdSense. Difference being I actually read the ToS and decided that it would be my parents channel, only I would be recording. Never clicked on my channels ads (in fact that's when I started using AdBlockers, for the sole purpose of not generating fraudulent ad revenue). Reading at 16 years old is not that hard. I created that YouTube channel much earlier than that. I also don't believe that as I aged I have magically understood better the worlds boundaries and limits. Mind you, 16 years old is enough to drive in some places. Enough to work in others. And also enough to drink in some others. It's just not that young and people should take responsibilities for their actions. Principles and values are something that's established early on in someone's life. If someone doesn't care for defrauding a company of $80 when they are 16 years old, I don't honestly believe they deserve a second chance.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  Are you making the claim that since you didn't make a mistake at 16 that no other 16 yo can make mistakes? As well as the claim that any mistakes made at 16 means that the person will forever repeat those same mistakes for life?
  - Devasta 4y ago
    He spent his teenage years reading terms and conditions, let not pretend he didn't make mistakes.
    - f1shy 4y ago
      Best possible response. Thank you.
    - doodlesdev 4y ago
      > He spent his teenage years reading terms and conditions I spent 15 minutes or so reading a document which I'm obligated to read to sign a contract and discovered I myself couldn't do it and so passed that to someone else. > lets not pretend he didn't make mistakes That's true. I do have multiple regrets too. Reading terms of services isn't one though.
  - doodlesdev 4y ago
    > Are you making the claim that since you didn't make a mistake at 16 that no other 16 yo can make mistakes? No. > As well as the claim that any mistakes made at 16 means that the person will forever repeat those same mistakes for life? No. I said that since I didn't make that mistake much before 16 years old (13 or so) then it's possible for a 16 years old to not make the same mistake. That's about reading ToS, defrauding Google is a whole other can of worms. I also didn't say they will make the same mistakes for life, only that they shouldn't get another chance. Google has no reason from their point of view to give access to their platform to someone who once tried to defraud them and put them in several liabilities related to child labor and exploitation.
- rideontime 4y ago
  but... you also committed fraud, you just got away with it...
  - doodlesdev 4y ago
    What fraud did I commit? There's nothing in Google's terms of service stating I can't appear in my parents channel. The money went to them, not me, I never saw a dime. No wrong information was sent to Google. In fact when we were considering AdWords we got in touch with a local AdWords representative (yes, Google has support, but only for the business they care about) and we talked about a lot of this stuff. Please tell me if I'm missing something and I'll be happy to retract what I've said.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  This idea of never forgive, never forget is why the USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Punishment is the singular goal, and rehabilitation is considered weakness. This kind of thinking is antisocial and serves no purpose other than some kind of revenge fantasy.
  - lupire 4y ago
    Nah, US incarcerated is due to deep-seated racism and profit motive.
  - pazimzadeh 4y ago
    I think that's somewhat true except in business/entrepreneurship, where the US seems way more forgiving to failure than Europe. Bankruptcy is also more common and it seems to me that people in the US respect having tried hard and failed hard more than having no failures on your resume.
  - doodlesdev 4y ago
    I never talked about incarceration. I don't live in the United States and I am not American. I do not condone the american incarceration system. > This kind of thinking is antisocial and serves no purpose other than some kind of revenge fantasy. When it comes to putting someone in prison I agree 100%. When it comes to the right of a bussiness to reject a customer I disagree.
filoleg 4y ago
Agreed. That + the offense itself is rather stupid minor. The user didn't defraud people out of a lot of money, the user literally just had a few classmates click on an ad, made $80 (that I bet weren't paid out anyway, because the account got banned), and now they are banned for life. At the very worst, I would say a more fair punishment would be a ban for a year or until they reach the age of 18 (whichever comes later out of those), especially given it was the first offence.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Though I agree with your judgment of what would be more fair, for me it doesn’t extend to compelling a private entity to enter into a contract with another private entity.
  - filoleg 4y ago
    Good point, and I honestly struggle with reconciling it and what I said earlier. Because on a fundamental level, I agree with both.
  - account42 4y ago
    We already require private entities providing services/products to the public to not discrimiate who they enter into contracts with based on certain protected attributes. However in this case you don't even need to do that - just make it illegal for such services to keep information on minors for longer than $period. If they can't identify you they can't deny you service while still indiscriminately providing service to everyone else.
kweingar 4y ago
I wish people showed more grace to young people. Another example along your lines: many were quick to declare that the chess player Hans Niemann ought to be banned from the sport because he admitted to cheating at online no-stakes chess games when he was 16. He is accused (without evidence) of cheating again, and people are latching on to the "once a cheater, always a cheater" mentality.
- lupire 4y ago
  He's 19. He cheated and then lied about it, and continued lying about it until very very recently, and credibly allegedly is still lying about it. His coach is also an unapologetic cheater in a Titled tournament. He deserves to still be on probation, not playing with world champions.

doodlesdev 4y ago

I beg do differ. When I was a kid I used to have a YouTube channel with AdSense. Difference being I actually read the ToS and decided that it would be my parents channel, only I would be recording. Never clicked on my channels ads (in fact that's when I started using AdBlockers, for the sole purpose of not generating fraudulent ad revenue). Reading at 16 years old is not that hard. I created that YouTube channel much earlier than that. I also don't believe that as I aged I have magically understood better the worlds boundaries and limits. Mind you, 16 years old is enough to drive in some places. Enough to work in others. And also enough to drink in some others. It's just not that young and people should take responsibilities for their actions. Principles and values are something that's established early on in someone's life. If someone doesn't care for defrauding a company of $80 when they are 16 years old, I don't honestly believe they deserve a second chance.

xboxnolifes 4y ago
Are you making the claim that since you didn't make a mistake at 16 that no other 16 yo can make mistakes? As well as the claim that any mistakes made at 16 means that the person will forever repeat those same mistakes for life?
- Devasta 4y ago
  He spent his teenage years reading terms and conditions, let not pretend he didn't make mistakes.
  - f1shy 4y ago
    Best possible response. Thank you.
  - doodlesdev 4y ago
    > He spent his teenage years reading terms and conditions I spent 15 minutes or so reading a document which I'm obligated to read to sign a contract and discovered I myself couldn't do it and so passed that to someone else. > lets not pretend he didn't make mistakes That's true. I do have multiple regrets too. Reading terms of services isn't one though.
- doodlesdev 4y ago
  > Are you making the claim that since you didn't make a mistake at 16 that no other 16 yo can make mistakes? No. > As well as the claim that any mistakes made at 16 means that the person will forever repeat those same mistakes for life? No. I said that since I didn't make that mistake much before 16 years old (13 or so) then it's possible for a 16 years old to not make the same mistake. That's about reading ToS, defrauding Google is a whole other can of worms. I also didn't say they will make the same mistakes for life, only that they shouldn't get another chance. Google has no reason from their point of view to give access to their platform to someone who once tried to defraud them and put them in several liabilities related to child labor and exploitation.
rideontime 4y ago
but... you also committed fraud, you just got away with it...
- doodlesdev 4y ago
  What fraud did I commit? There's nothing in Google's terms of service stating I can't appear in my parents channel. The money went to them, not me, I never saw a dime. No wrong information was sent to Google. In fact when we were considering AdWords we got in touch with a local AdWords representative (yes, Google has support, but only for the business they care about) and we talked about a lot of this stuff. Please tell me if I'm missing something and I'll be happy to retract what I've said.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
This idea of never forgive, never forget is why the USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Punishment is the singular goal, and rehabilitation is considered weakness. This kind of thinking is antisocial and serves no purpose other than some kind of revenge fantasy.
- lupire 4y ago
  Nah, US incarcerated is due to deep-seated racism and profit motive.
- pazimzadeh 4y ago
  I think that's somewhat true except in business/entrepreneurship, where the US seems way more forgiving to failure than Europe. Bankruptcy is also more common and it seems to me that people in the US respect having tried hard and failed hard more than having no failures on your resume.
- doodlesdev 4y ago
  I never talked about incarceration. I don't live in the United States and I am not American. I do not condone the american incarceration system. > This kind of thinking is antisocial and serves no purpose other than some kind of revenge fantasy. When it comes to putting someone in prison I agree 100%. When it comes to the right of a bussiness to reject a customer I disagree.

filoleg 4y ago

Agreed. That + the offense itself is rather stupid minor. The user didn't defraud people out of a lot of money, the user literally just had a few classmates click on an ad, made $80 (that I bet weren't paid out anyway, because the account got banned), and now they are banned for life. At the very worst, I would say a more fair punishment would be a ban for a year or until they reach the age of 18 (whichever comes later out of those), especially given it was the first offence.

sokoloff 4y ago
Though I agree with your judgment of what would be more fair, for me it doesn’t extend to compelling a private entity to enter into a contract with another private entity.
- filoleg 4y ago
  Good point, and I honestly struggle with reconciling it and what I said earlier. Because on a fundamental level, I agree with both.
- account42 4y ago
  We already require private entities providing services/products to the public to not discrimiate who they enter into contracts with based on certain protected attributes. However in this case you don't even need to do that - just make it illegal for such services to keep information on minors for longer than $period. If they can't identify you they can't deny you service while still indiscriminately providing service to everyone else.

kweingar 4y ago

I wish people showed more grace to young people. Another example along your lines: many were quick to declare that the chess player Hans Niemann ought to be banned from the sport because he admitted to cheating at online no-stakes chess games when he was 16. He is accused (without evidence) of cheating again, and people are latching on to the "once a cheater, always a cheater" mentality.

lupire 4y ago
He's 19. He cheated and then lied about it, and continued lying about it until very very recently, and credibly allegedly is still lying about it. His coach is also an unapologetic cheater in a Titled tournament. He deserves to still be on probation, not playing with world champions.