4 ms·

Like your internet service provider you already have??

by muricula 4y ago

xboxnolifes 4y ago
An ISP is not a single point for all Windows users.
- BillinghamJ 4y ago
  Cloudflare is probably not far off, though not an ISP in quite the same sense
bisby 4y ago
While I agree with the sentiment that ultimately we have to have some level of trust somewhere on the stack, there are a few minor differences. In theory anyway, I pick my ISP. If this was "support for using a VPN" instead of "we're injecting OUR VPN" I would feel a lot better. I'm aware Im using my ISP. Even someone who doesn't know much about computers knows their traffic is going somewhere. They might not know the repercussions of that, but if this is just transparently on in the background, effectively a keylogger, a user might never know this is happening. I give my ISP money. Back to the choice option. Some ISPs are bad and are trying to nickel and dime you to maximize profits. Some ISPs are actually good (I'm not swiss so I don't know for sure, but Init7 looks amazing https://www.init7.net/en/support/faq/privatsphaere/ https://www.init7.net/en/support/faq/privatsphaere/). I don't have to question with my ISP "how are they profiting off of me" because I give them money every month. They might be, but they don't intrinsically NEED to be scraping my data. I am not sure how Microsoft benefits from giving me a free VPN unless they are scraping my data. I can use a VPN to bypass my ISP monitoring if they do monitor. I have no idea how Microsoft's stuff is set up here. If the end result is that it gets routed through their VPN after my VPN, or instead of my VPN, or even through their stuff at all, but with stamped metadata, then there's not necessarily a great way to get around it other than "don't use Edge" In general, yes, your ISP isn't your friend. But an ISP is something I asked for, have a use for, and need. A Microsoft stealth VPN is none of those things.
- gfaster 4y ago
  This was also how I could justify being more trusting of Apple. They didn't need all my data because that was paid for up front. The ongoing services that needed to make money I used were also paid for. Obviously that's no long quite true with Apple ramping up their ad business, but that attitude is still often the best you can do without a level of effort that I just am not willing to go through.

Like your internet service provider you already have??

xboxnolifes 4y ago

An ISP is not a single point for all Windows users.

BillinghamJ 4y ago
Cloudflare is probably not far off, though not an ISP in quite the same sense

bisby 4y ago

While I agree with the sentiment that ultimately we have to have some level of trust somewhere on the stack, there are a few minor differences. In theory anyway, I pick my ISP. If this was "support for using a VPN" instead of "we're injecting OUR VPN" I would feel a lot better. I'm aware Im using my ISP. Even someone who doesn't know much about computers knows their traffic is going somewhere. They might not know the repercussions of that, but if this is just transparently on in the background, effectively a keylogger, a user might never know this is happening. I give my ISP money. Back to the choice option. Some ISPs are bad and are trying to nickel and dime you to maximize profits. Some ISPs are actually good (I'm not swiss so I don't know for sure, but Init7 looks amazing https://www.init7.net/en/support/faq/privatsphaere/ https://www.init7.net/en/support/faq/privatsphaere/). I don't have to question with my ISP "how are they profiting off of me" because I give them money every month. They might be, but they don't intrinsically NEED to be scraping my data. I am not sure how Microsoft benefits from giving me a free VPN unless they are scraping my data. I can use a VPN to bypass my ISP monitoring if they do monitor. I have no idea how Microsoft's stuff is set up here. If the end result is that it gets routed through their VPN after my VPN, or instead of my VPN, or even through their stuff at all, but with stamped metadata, then there's not necessarily a great way to get around it other than "don't use Edge" In general, yes, your ISP isn't your friend. But an ISP is something I asked for, have a use for, and need. A Microsoft stealth VPN is none of those things.

gfaster 4y ago
This was also how I could justify being more trusting of Apple. They didn't need all my data because that was paid for up front. The ongoing services that needed to make money I used were also paid for. Obviously that's no long quite true with Apple ramping up their ad business, but that attitude is still often the best you can do without a level of effort that I just am not willing to go through.