8 ms·

Hopefully insurance costs will not be extracted throughout the entire country. The insurance rates must reflect the true cost of residing in hurricane alley.

jliptzin 4y ago
I would hope insurers are smarter than that
digitalsushi 4y ago
Can anyone even get (good) insurance in Florida at this point? I believe many large insurance providers have backed out of Florida over the past few years by making their rates so astronomical that there's only one obvious goal.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Kin Insurance covers my Florida property at ~$400k of replacement coverage with reasonable deductibles for $1800/year. I am not on the water, the property is significantly above sea level with a new roof, and I have done every mitigation recommended by the insurer (wall to roof strapping, water barrier between shingles and decking, shutter supports, etc).
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    That sounds affordable as long as you have a decent job. As a point of comparison, however, up here in northern Illinois, you can get 2-3x the replacement coverage from a name-brand national insurance company for that price. And we do have tornado risk. Which is to say that your insurance is expensive, but I wouldn't call it a barrier to living there. Much like property taxes - if you saw my bill, you'd probably fall out of your chair. Turns out the total cost is high everywhere. ;)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- giantg2 4y ago
  If people focused on functional/survivable structures, then it wouldn't be an issue. Initial construction might be 1.5x-2x the cost, but it'd be better than rebuilding every couple decades. But I guess they wouldn't be as pretty as they'd want.
  - iskander 4y ago
    Miami has the sturdiest residential construction materials of any city I have lived in. Cinderblock is extremely common. It still doesn't save your home if you build at 5ft above sea level and a hurricane brings 15ft of storm surge.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Of course it will still be a mess. Most of the pictures I've seen on the news have been stickbuilts that are completely trashed.
    - matthewdgreen 4y ago
      All new construction in Sanibel, FL (which got hit hard by Ian) is required to have one floor of "sacrificial space" above which finished living structure can be built. In most homes this is a garage or above-ground storage room with no drywall, and all electrical connections at least several feet off the floor. This doesn't make storm surge cost-free and we have yet to see whether it was enough for Ian, but I doubt the storm surge reached more than 6ft.
      - guelo 4y ago
        It was way more than 6ft at Fort Myers Beach which is the same area as Sanibel: https://v.redd.it/l0w7syf7zvq91 https://v.redd.it/l0w7syf7zvq91
      - MrMan 4y ago
        it was 8-9ft in that area I think
      - mcculley 4y ago
- woah 4y ago
  > only one obvious goal Running a functioning insurance? If you want to pay rates which allow them to rebuild your home for you every ten years (annual rate = your home's cost / 10), I'm sure they'd be more than happy to do it and collect their small profit.
- ClassicOrgin 4y ago
  Being realistic for a second this storm probably killed every remaining private insurer and Citizens (state ran last-resort insurer) will probably have to be bailed out.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
Not a chance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Flood_Insurance_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Flood_Insurance_Progr... >As of August 2017, the program insured about 5 million homes (down from about 5.5 million homes in April 2010), the majority of which are in Texas and Florida.[3][4] The cost of the insurance program was fully covered by its premiums until the end of 2004, but it has had to steadily borrow funds since, primarily due to Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Sandy, accumulating $25 billion of debt by August 2017.[3][5] In October 2017, Congress cancelled $16 billion of NFIP debt, making it possible for the program to pay claims. The NFIP owes $20.525 billion to the U.S. as of December 2020.[6]
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Is the conclusion that housing should not be built where Sandy’s damages occurred? That seems...unreasonable.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    Sandy was an anomalous storm but could happen again. By the time storms reach the Northeast they’re weak, usually not even hurricanes at landfall. The Jersey Shore was very unprepared but new development is far more robust. Lots more dunes being built and protected too.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    A significant portion of Texas and Florida need to realize that these damaging events aren't going to stop happening, and they need to either build stronger, or leave if that's not possible. If I built a house that could not manage a foot of snow on it's roof in Maine without collapsing, and every year it collapsed got a big check from the feds to rebuild the exact same structure in the exact same place, surely someone would be willing to tell me I'm being stupid? It's literally Einstein's definition of "insanity"
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      NB: Sandy did not affect Texas and had very minimal effects on Florida. Texas and Florida might need changes, but losses from Sandy aren’t the reason.
renewiltord 4y ago
They're probably government insured. You're never going to change that because you only have to trot out one grandma and one family and you can spend unlimited amounts in indirect costs for them.
Grimburger 4y ago
> Hopefully insurance costs will not be extracted throughout the entire country. Not sure about the US but in Australia flood insurance has skyrocketed nationwide after the last few years of extreme flood events, even people living on the top of hills pay more for general policies.

jliptzin 4y ago

I would hope insurers are smarter than that

digitalsushi 4y ago

Can anyone even get (good) insurance in Florida at this point? I believe many large insurance providers have backed out of Florida over the past few years by making their rates so astronomical that there's only one obvious goal.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Kin Insurance covers my Florida property at ~$400k of replacement coverage with reasonable deductibles for $1800/year. I am not on the water, the property is significantly above sea level with a new roof, and I have done every mitigation recommended by the insurer (wall to roof strapping, water barrier between shingles and decking, shutter supports, etc).
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  That sounds affordable as long as you have a decent job. As a point of comparison, however, up here in northern Illinois, you can get 2-3x the replacement coverage from a name-brand national insurance company for that price. And we do have tornado risk. Which is to say that your insurance is expensive, but I wouldn't call it a barrier to living there. Much like property taxes - if you saw my bill, you'd probably fall out of your chair. Turns out the total cost is high everywhere. ;)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
giantg2 4y ago
If people focused on functional/survivable structures, then it wouldn't be an issue. Initial construction might be 1.5x-2x the cost, but it'd be better than rebuilding every couple decades. But I guess they wouldn't be as pretty as they'd want.
- iskander 4y ago
  Miami has the sturdiest residential construction materials of any city I have lived in. Cinderblock is extremely common. It still doesn't save your home if you build at 5ft above sea level and a hurricane brings 15ft of storm surge.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Of course it will still be a mess. Most of the pictures I've seen on the news have been stickbuilts that are completely trashed.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    All new construction in Sanibel, FL (which got hit hard by Ian) is required to have one floor of "sacrificial space" above which finished living structure can be built. In most homes this is a garage or above-ground storage room with no drywall, and all electrical connections at least several feet off the floor. This doesn't make storm surge cost-free and we have yet to see whether it was enough for Ian, but I doubt the storm surge reached more than 6ft.
    - guelo 4y ago
      It was way more than 6ft at Fort Myers Beach which is the same area as Sanibel: https://v.redd.it/l0w7syf7zvq91 https://v.redd.it/l0w7syf7zvq91
    - MrMan 4y ago
      it was 8-9ft in that area I think
    - mcculley 4y ago
woah 4y ago
> only one obvious goal Running a functioning insurance? If you want to pay rates which allow them to rebuild your home for you every ten years (annual rate = your home's cost / 10), I'm sure they'd be more than happy to do it and collect their small profit.
ClassicOrgin 4y ago
Being realistic for a second this storm probably killed every remaining private insurer and Citizens (state ran last-resort insurer) will probably have to be bailed out.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

Not a chance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Flood_Insurance_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Flood_Insurance_Progr... >As of August 2017, the program insured about 5 million homes (down from about 5.5 million homes in April 2010), the majority of which are in Texas and Florida.[3][4] The cost of the insurance program was fully covered by its premiums until the end of 2004, but it has had to steadily borrow funds since, primarily due to Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Sandy, accumulating $25 billion of debt by August 2017.[3][5] In October 2017, Congress cancelled $16 billion of NFIP debt, making it possible for the program to pay claims. The NFIP owes $20.525 billion to the U.S. as of December 2020.[6]

sokoloff 4y ago
Is the conclusion that housing should not be built where Sandy’s damages occurred? That seems...unreasonable.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Sandy was an anomalous storm but could happen again. By the time storms reach the Northeast they’re weak, usually not even hurricanes at landfall. The Jersey Shore was very unprepared but new development is far more robust. Lots more dunes being built and protected too.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  A significant portion of Texas and Florida need to realize that these damaging events aren't going to stop happening, and they need to either build stronger, or leave if that's not possible. If I built a house that could not manage a foot of snow on it's roof in Maine without collapsing, and every year it collapsed got a big check from the feds to rebuild the exact same structure in the exact same place, surely someone would be willing to tell me I'm being stupid? It's literally Einstein's definition of "insanity"
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    NB: Sandy did not affect Texas and had very minimal effects on Florida. Texas and Florida might need changes, but losses from Sandy aren’t the reason.

renewiltord 4y ago

They're probably government insured. You're never going to change that because you only have to trot out one grandma and one family and you can spend unlimited amounts in indirect costs for them.

Grimburger 4y ago

> Hopefully insurance costs will not be extracted throughout the entire country. Not sure about the US but in Australia flood insurance has skyrocketed nationwide after the last few years of extreme flood events, even people living on the top of hills pay more for general policies.