4 ms·

European salaries are kinda sad.

by jstx1 4y ago

albemuth 4y ago
The lack of social safety net for majority of US is kinda sad.
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  People earning 400k tech salaries are probably fine though... ?
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    Yes but that’s a tiny fraction of STEM employees and an even smaller fraction of the total workforce.
- jstx1 4y ago
  That's a separate issue, the difference in the social safety net is hardly relevant to the people who work at the data jobs that the article talks about.
  - jensgk 4y ago
    If you have any conscience and empathy it is always relevant.
- userabchn 4y ago
  I have lived and worked for at least several years in both the US and the EU (and I am from an EU country). People in America like to portray everything as being better in Europe, but from my experience life there is fine and there are certainly some things that I prefer, but overall I think the quality of life for a middle class person in the US is noticeably higher.
- jelliclesfarm 4y ago
  This is simply not true. Safety net provides basic amenities and not a desired or extravagant life style. And the United States is still one of the better countries in the world when it comes to social safety net. Those who have witnessed poverty and true inequalities around the world can attest to this. Do Americans make uneducated and wrong choices? Yes, they do. Like any human being. Do Americans have inflated expectations of what is owed to them due to entitlement? Yes, they do. Are Americans manipulated and gaslit by politicians as are other citizens of the world? Yes, they are. But we have plentiful and cheap food. Gas is cheaper than most countries in the world. Energy and connectivity is accessible to all. Some of the best tech and solutions that make the world a better place is exported from the United States. There is a social security program for the most vulnerable. But the greatest strength of United States is that the country offers opportunities and a chance to ascend socially/economically. The best part is that the potential for America to become the best country in the world is literally limitless. Just rein in the politicians and get back to being being what we are good at…creating and managing capital for bettering the country and exporting the tech/know how. We shouldn’t aspire to be Scandinavia or China or Europe. Often the romanticizing is about being old White Europe..which is embarrassing. It pretty much throws light on the demographic that is creating this narrative of America being deficient. This in turn has created a defensive resistance from other demographic sections of the population that doesn’t have Western European roots. America has to stand on its own. (The only growth model we should follow/learn from..as should all nations in the world..is the Singapore Model. Lee Kuan Yew was a true visionary) And not try to emulate any other nation because no other country is close to our land mass size or population size. Or GDP. The list goes on. America cannot permit the turkeys bring the elephant down.
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    But the greatest strength of United States is that the country offers opportunities and a chance to ascend socially/economically. Social mobility in the US currently lags behind much of western Europe, Canada, AUS, and NZ. The US is currently 27th in the world. If you're point of reference is Cameroon, sure the US is great. If you're point of reference is a Nordic nation (top 5 nations by the ranking are Nordic), it's not so great. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index
TrackerFF 4y ago
Are European engineers undervalued, or are American engineers overvalued?
- helge9210 4y ago
  I lived/worked in Israel (no US experience) and now live and work in Germany. I would say European engineers are adequately priced relative to the value European companies are able to derive from their work. And FAANG are just matching the market.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- codegeek 4y ago
  It is mostly VC money or companies that need to pay that much to keep the best talent around (aka FAANGs). Most software engineers do not make 400k in the US. They just don't.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    Nobody is claiming that most people make $400k. Take the median numbers by country from the article - $187k in US vs $108k Europe - that's still a significant difference.
  - TrackerFF 4y ago
    Yes - location is key. I'd be surprised if people made FAANG salaries outside the west and east coast, and even then at quite specific locations / industries. Not sure what the pay is in emerging cities like Austin, etc.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mpeg 4y ago
I briefly thought about joining Meta this year and even went through a couple rounds of interviews for a management position, but I got a bit disheartened by the coldness of the whole interview process where I got to talk to people in random teams that had no idea what my role would be. They didn't seem to want to discuss salary either, which led me to think they pay way under market value in the UK.
- jstx1 4y ago
  > led me to think they pay way under market value in the UK. This isn't true; you can look up their salaries - they're one of the best paying companies in the UK.
  - mpeg 4y ago
    Where would you say has accurate salary data? They never actually got to discuss it with me so I don’t know for sure. Would they pay £200k+ base for a data engineering manager though? I don’t think I am senior enough for their director level which might command those salaries, and that’s what I can get in some other places.

European salaries are kinda sad.

by jstx1 4y ago

European salaries are kinda sad.

albemuth 4y ago

The lack of social safety net for majority of US is kinda sad.

zeroonetwothree 4y ago
People earning 400k tech salaries are probably fine though... ?
- alistairSH 4y ago
  Yes but that’s a tiny fraction of STEM employees and an even smaller fraction of the total workforce.
jstx1 4y ago
That's a separate issue, the difference in the social safety net is hardly relevant to the people who work at the data jobs that the article talks about.
- jensgk 4y ago
  If you have any conscience and empathy it is always relevant.
userabchn 4y ago
I have lived and worked for at least several years in both the US and the EU (and I am from an EU country). People in America like to portray everything as being better in Europe, but from my experience life there is fine and there are certainly some things that I prefer, but overall I think the quality of life for a middle class person in the US is noticeably higher.
jelliclesfarm 4y ago
This is simply not true. Safety net provides basic amenities and not a desired or extravagant life style. And the United States is still one of the better countries in the world when it comes to social safety net. Those who have witnessed poverty and true inequalities around the world can attest to this. Do Americans make uneducated and wrong choices? Yes, they do. Like any human being. Do Americans have inflated expectations of what is owed to them due to entitlement? Yes, they do. Are Americans manipulated and gaslit by politicians as are other citizens of the world? Yes, they are. But we have plentiful and cheap food. Gas is cheaper than most countries in the world. Energy and connectivity is accessible to all. Some of the best tech and solutions that make the world a better place is exported from the United States. There is a social security program for the most vulnerable. But the greatest strength of United States is that the country offers opportunities and a chance to ascend socially/economically. The best part is that the potential for America to become the best country in the world is literally limitless. Just rein in the politicians and get back to being being what we are good at…creating and managing capital for bettering the country and exporting the tech/know how. We shouldn’t aspire to be Scandinavia or China or Europe. Often the romanticizing is about being old White Europe..which is embarrassing. It pretty much throws light on the demographic that is creating this narrative of America being deficient. This in turn has created a defensive resistance from other demographic sections of the population that doesn’t have Western European roots. America has to stand on its own. (The only growth model we should follow/learn from..as should all nations in the world..is the Singapore Model. Lee Kuan Yew was a true visionary) And not try to emulate any other nation because no other country is close to our land mass size or population size. Or GDP. The list goes on. America cannot permit the turkeys bring the elephant down.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  But the greatest strength of United States is that the country offers opportunities and a chance to ascend socially/economically. Social mobility in the US currently lags behind much of western Europe, Canada, AUS, and NZ. The US is currently 27th in the world. If you're point of reference is Cameroon, sure the US is great. If you're point of reference is a Nordic nation (top 5 nations by the ranking are Nordic), it's not so great. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

TrackerFF 4y ago

Are European engineers undervalued, or are American engineers overvalued?

helge9210 4y ago
I lived/worked in Israel (no US experience) and now live and work in Germany. I would say European engineers are adequately priced relative to the value European companies are able to derive from their work. And FAANG are just matching the market.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
codegeek 4y ago
It is mostly VC money or companies that need to pay that much to keep the best talent around (aka FAANGs). Most software engineers do not make 400k in the US. They just don't.
- jstx1 4y ago
  Nobody is claiming that most people make $400k. Take the median numbers by country from the article - $187k in US vs $108k Europe - that's still a significant difference.
- TrackerFF 4y ago
  Yes - location is key. I'd be surprised if people made FAANG salaries outside the west and east coast, and even then at quite specific locations / industries. Not sure what the pay is in emerging cities like Austin, etc.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mpeg 4y ago

I briefly thought about joining Meta this year and even went through a couple rounds of interviews for a management position, but I got a bit disheartened by the coldness of the whole interview process where I got to talk to people in random teams that had no idea what my role would be. They didn't seem to want to discuss salary either, which led me to think they pay way under market value in the UK.

jstx1 4y ago
> led me to think they pay way under market value in the UK. This isn't true; you can look up their salaries - they're one of the best paying companies in the UK.
- mpeg 4y ago
  Where would you say has accurate salary data? They never actually got to discuss it with me so I don’t know for sure. Would they pay £200k+ base for a data engineering manager though? I don’t think I am senior enough for their director level which might command those salaries, and that’s what I can get in some other places.