13 ms·

Data salaries at FAANG companies in 2022

41 points by whispersnow 4y ago

orky56 4y ago
Comp at Netflix is all salary whereas the other ones include equity. For some reason, this is not taken into account and thereby skews the whole discussion.
- jrockway 4y ago
  Yeah, it's so weird looking at these when they're not "total comp". When I worked at Google, half my W2 income was equity. It just misleads other companies that are competing for the same talent. "Why is everyone taking a different offer? Our salary is above Google!" but startup equity != RSUs, which you can autosell and treat as cash that shows up every month, just like salary.
  - woah 4y ago
    Except you get a pay cut when the market goes down
    - jrockway 4y ago
      Yeah you do. It's prudent to value accordingly.
    - orky56 4y ago
      Pay cut when the market goes down and pay raise when the market goes up? Sure there's volatility involved but these stocks beat the market on average and drive close to 15% of some indices (i.e. FAANG at 15% total market cap of VTI). Those RSU's drive more wealth creation among FAANG employees than not over the long term.
    - yibg 4y ago
      Also a pay raise when the market goes up. If we assume an average flat stock price, it's pretty much same as cash comp.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  It's really hard to compare apples to apples if you bring equity into things. Even for large publicly traded companies where the employee's equity is liquid. What value do you use for the equity that makes sense to simply add to salary? Equity value when granted? When vested? When eventually sold?
  - jstx1 4y ago
    When granted, that's accepted quite widely when people talk about compensation.
  - hollerith 4y ago
    Because the stock market is efficient, the market price of the equity grant at the moment the employee receives it will be very close to the expectation of the price the shares will sell for when the employee decides to sell them discounted a little to account for the fact that the employee is probably not a professional investor (and consequently won't be quite as efficient as a pro would be at choosing the best time to sell).
  - lanza 4y ago
    I don't see how ignoring the majority of a persons income is more reasonable than estimating based on reasonable extrapolations. Not to mention that the article literally says "work for Netflix, get rich" based entirely on the fact that they are ignoring non-salary compesation. It's an outright idiotic conclusion to be drawn.
    - mradek 4y ago
      Most of the stocks are down this year. Except apple. I would rather have all cash up front right now if I could, personally speaking.
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  It’s only data salaries, which are lower than software engineering salaries at most companies as compared to Netflix. The reason being Netflix considers everyone as softwaRe engineers and pays them the same wages, while other companies don’t.
  - yibg 4y ago
    Software engineers at the other companies have similar base comp. It's the equity portion that's missing.
    - darth_avocado 4y ago
      You literally missed my point.
      - yibg 4y ago
        Enlighten me, what was your point?
zwieback 4y ago
The comments on the sidebar are interesting - lots of Europeans commenting on salary and tax burden vs. cost of education, retirement and healthcare. I grew up in Germany, enjoyed a free engineering education but moved to US after graduation. My single anecdotal data point seems to agree with a lot of the US commenters on this post: if you're educated and work for a reputable company you're pretty well off in the US. As the situation becomes worse for blue collar and untrained labor workforce it's clear that it's coming at their expense. Wealth inequality in the US is a huge issue and needs to be addressed.
- dantheman 4y ago
  The average work in the US has far more purchasing power than german worker. The problem in the US is: housing, education, and medicine - three areas where the government has strongly distorted the market and driven up cost.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    That implies the average US worker can afford more despite lower median wage (before the US dollar took off, anyway). >housing Housing is nowhere near a problem compared to most of Western Europe. Americans live huge and house prices are still low relative to CoL. Unless your measuring standard is a megapolis in, you know, the most desired place in the world.
    - tomcam 4y ago
      > you know, the most desired place in the world. Paris says thanks for the compliment ;)
  - geraneum 4y ago
    > The problem in the US is: housing, education, and medicine Honestly I'm confused; These are very crucial, these are basic, and if they are out of reach for an average worker, does the higher purchasing power (assuming it's actually higher in US) even matter that much without them?
jstx1 4y ago
European salaries are kinda sad.
- albemuth 4y ago
  The lack of social safety net for majority of US is kinda sad.
  - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
    People earning 400k tech salaries are probably fine though... ?
    - alistairSH 4y ago
      Yes but that’s a tiny fraction of STEM employees and an even smaller fraction of the total workforce.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    That's a separate issue, the difference in the social safety net is hardly relevant to the people who work at the data jobs that the article talks about.
    - jensgk 4y ago
      If you have any conscience and empathy it is always relevant.
  - userabchn 4y ago
    I have lived and worked for at least several years in both the US and the EU (and I am from an EU country). People in America like to portray everything as being better in Europe, but from my experience life there is fine and there are certainly some things that I prefer, but overall I think the quality of life for a middle class person in the US is noticeably higher.
  - jelliclesfarm 4y ago
    This is simply not true. Safety net provides basic amenities and not a desired or extravagant life style. And the United States is still one of the better countries in the world when it comes to social safety net. Those who have witnessed poverty and true inequalities around the world can attest to this. Do Americans make uneducated and wrong choices? Yes, they do. Like any human being. Do Americans have inflated expectations of what is owed to them due to entitlement? Yes, they do. Are Americans manipulated and gaslit by politicians as are other citizens of the world? Yes, they are. But we have plentiful and cheap food. Gas is cheaper than most countries in the world. Energy and connectivity is accessible to all. Some of the best tech and solutions that make the world a better place is exported from the United States. There is a social security program for the most vulnerable. But the greatest strength of United States is that the country offers opportunities and a chance to ascend socially/economically. The best part is that the potential for America to become the best country in the world is literally limitless. Just rein in the politicians and get back to being being what we are good at…creating and managing capital for bettering the country and exporting the tech/know how. We shouldn’t aspire to be Scandinavia or China or Europe. Often the romanticizing is about being old White Europe..which is embarrassing. It pretty much throws light on the demographic that is creating this narrative of America being deficient. This in turn has created a defensive resistance from other demographic sections of the population that doesn’t have Western European roots. America has to stand on its own. (The only growth model we should follow/learn from..as should all nations in the world..is the Singapore Model. Lee Kuan Yew was a true visionary) And not try to emulate any other nation because no other country is close to our land mass size or population size. Or GDP. The list goes on. America cannot permit the turkeys bring the elephant down.
m348e912 4y ago
Anyone else notice the link in the article to inc.com https://www.inc.com/business-insider/best-google-benefits.html https://www.inc.com/business-insider/best-google-benefits.ht... doesn't work because inc.com got breached and shut down their website temporarily?
TrackerFF 4y ago
These posts always devolve into the same US vs Europe flame wars. Truth be told the US is simply a much more fertile ground for entrepreneurship, and has been for many decades. US companies have performed very well in the market, and thus dominate any sectors when it comes to tech. When you're practically printing money, you can pay whatever it takes. Some countries, like my own - Norway - have tax laws which are directly hostile towards startups and early founders. I feel that it's just in the past 10-15 years that the startup scene has really started to take off. Investors are much more modern in their mindsets, people are willing to dream a bit bigger than before. Who knows what the markets will look like in 10-20-30 years?
- codegeek 4y ago
  Grass is always greener on the other side. US is great if you are very capitalistic but are willing to deal with bullshit like shitty healthcare administration/Insurance company/crazy premiums/tied to employer etc etc, much less vacation days on an average (Yea I know some employers give u unlimited vacation but who are we kidding), lesser happiness index (european countries usually fare better here as well) and others. My sister lives in Finland. She has a nice stable job with amazing benefits both from her employer AND her Govt. Sure, she probably cannot start a business as easy as she can do here in the states BUT she is very happy and has a well balanced and peaceful life. She doesn't have to worry about Kids education cost, healthcare costs and what not. She got almost a year of maternity if I am remembering correctly. A year!! In US, good luck with that. I love America because I am hardcore capitalist and don't mind the other BS it brings but just saying American salaries are great and Europe sucks is comparing Apples to Oranges.
  - TrackerFF 4y ago
    Oh, absolutely - I've worked in the US for some shorter stints (albeit through European companies), and there were things I loved and things I did not like. I think if you're extremely ambitious, willing to shoot your shot, and work hard - the US is a great place to be. It rewards winners handsomely, and punishes losers viciously. And this is something you see here in Europe. Those type of people do leave for the US, to make their fortune.
yttribium 4y ago
Doesn't do you much good when everyone is entering hiring freeze and layoffs for the rest of the cycle.
nsxwolf 4y ago
In general it doesn't seem like anyone is living high on the hog in California with these salaries and my remoting from the midwest, at lower pay, is the better deal.

41 points by whispersnow 4y ago

Comp at Netflix is all salary whereas the other ones include equity. For some reason, this is not taken into account and thereby skews the whole discussion.

jrockway 4y ago
Yeah, it's so weird looking at these when they're not "total comp". When I worked at Google, half my W2 income was equity. It just misleads other companies that are competing for the same talent. "Why is everyone taking a different offer? Our salary is above Google!" but startup equity != RSUs, which you can autosell and treat as cash that shows up every month, just like salary.
- woah 4y ago
  Except you get a pay cut when the market goes down
  - jrockway 4y ago
    Yeah you do. It's prudent to value accordingly.
  - orky56 4y ago
    Pay cut when the market goes down and pay raise when the market goes up? Sure there's volatility involved but these stocks beat the market on average and drive close to 15% of some indices (i.e. FAANG at 15% total market cap of VTI). Those RSU's drive more wealth creation among FAANG employees than not over the long term.
  - yibg 4y ago
    Also a pay raise when the market goes up. If we assume an average flat stock price, it's pretty much same as cash comp.
ryandrake 4y ago
It's really hard to compare apples to apples if you bring equity into things. Even for large publicly traded companies where the employee's equity is liquid. What value do you use for the equity that makes sense to simply add to salary? Equity value when granted? When vested? When eventually sold?
- jstx1 4y ago
  When granted, that's accepted quite widely when people talk about compensation.
- hollerith 4y ago
  Because the stock market is efficient, the market price of the equity grant at the moment the employee receives it will be very close to the expectation of the price the shares will sell for when the employee decides to sell them discounted a little to account for the fact that the employee is probably not a professional investor (and consequently won't be quite as efficient as a pro would be at choosing the best time to sell).
- lanza 4y ago
  I don't see how ignoring the majority of a persons income is more reasonable than estimating based on reasonable extrapolations. Not to mention that the article literally says "work for Netflix, get rich" based entirely on the fact that they are ignoring non-salary compesation. It's an outright idiotic conclusion to be drawn.
  - mradek 4y ago
    Most of the stocks are down this year. Except apple. I would rather have all cash up front right now if I could, personally speaking.
darth_avocado 4y ago
It’s only data salaries, which are lower than software engineering salaries at most companies as compared to Netflix. The reason being Netflix considers everyone as softwaRe engineers and pays them the same wages, while other companies don’t.
- yibg 4y ago
  Software engineers at the other companies have similar base comp. It's the equity portion that's missing.
  - darth_avocado 4y ago
    You literally missed my point.
    - yibg 4y ago
      Enlighten me, what was your point?

zwieback 4y ago

The comments on the sidebar are interesting - lots of Europeans commenting on salary and tax burden vs. cost of education, retirement and healthcare. I grew up in Germany, enjoyed a free engineering education but moved to US after graduation. My single anecdotal data point seems to agree with a lot of the US commenters on this post: if you're educated and work for a reputable company you're pretty well off in the US. As the situation becomes worse for blue collar and untrained labor workforce it's clear that it's coming at their expense. Wealth inequality in the US is a huge issue and needs to be addressed.

dantheman 4y ago
The average work in the US has far more purchasing power than german worker. The problem in the US is: housing, education, and medicine - three areas where the government has strongly distorted the market and driven up cost.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  That implies the average US worker can afford more despite lower median wage (before the US dollar took off, anyway). >housing Housing is nowhere near a problem compared to most of Western Europe. Americans live huge and house prices are still low relative to CoL. Unless your measuring standard is a megapolis in, you know, the most desired place in the world.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    > you know, the most desired place in the world. Paris says thanks for the compliment ;)
- geraneum 4y ago
  > The problem in the US is: housing, education, and medicine Honestly I'm confused; These are very crucial, these are basic, and if they are out of reach for an average worker, does the higher purchasing power (assuming it's actually higher in US) even matter that much without them?

jstx1 4y ago

European salaries are kinda sad.

albemuth 4y ago
The lack of social safety net for majority of US is kinda sad.
- zeroonetwothree 4y ago
  People earning 400k tech salaries are probably fine though... ?
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    Yes but that’s a tiny fraction of STEM employees and an even smaller fraction of the total workforce.
- jstx1 4y ago
  That's a separate issue, the difference in the social safety net is hardly relevant to the people who work at the data jobs that the article talks about.
  - jensgk 4y ago
    If you have any conscience and empathy it is always relevant.
- userabchn 4y ago
  I have lived and worked for at least several years in both the US and the EU (and I am from an EU country). People in America like to portray everything as being better in Europe, but from my experience life there is fine and there are certainly some things that I prefer, but overall I think the quality of life for a middle class person in the US is noticeably higher.
- jelliclesfarm 4y ago
  This is simply not true. Safety net provides basic amenities and not a desired or extravagant life style. And the United States is still one of the better countries in the world when it comes to social safety net. Those who have witnessed poverty and true inequalities around the world can attest to this. Do Americans make uneducated and wrong choices? Yes, they do. Like any human being. Do Americans have inflated expectations of what is owed to them due to entitlement? Yes, they do. Are Americans manipulated and gaslit by politicians as are other citizens of the world? Yes, they are. But we have plentiful and cheap food. Gas is cheaper than most countries in the world. Energy and connectivity is accessible to all. Some of the best tech and solutions that make the world a better place is exported from the United States. There is a social security program for the most vulnerable. But the greatest strength of United States is that the country offers opportunities and a chance to ascend socially/economically. The best part is that the potential for America to become the best country in the world is literally limitless. Just rein in the politicians and get back to being being what we are good at…creating and managing capital for bettering the country and exporting the tech/know how. We shouldn’t aspire to be Scandinavia or China or Europe. Often the romanticizing is about being old White Europe..which is embarrassing. It pretty much throws light on the demographic that is creating this narrative of America being deficient. This in turn has created a defensive resistance from other demographic sections of the population that doesn’t have Western European roots. America has to stand on its own. (The only growth model we should follow/learn from..as should all nations in the world..is the Singapore Model. Lee Kuan Yew was a true visionary) And not try to emulate any other nation because no other country is close to our land mass size or population size. Or GDP. The list goes on. America cannot permit the turkeys bring the elephant down.

m348e912 4y ago

Anyone else notice the link in the article to inc.com https://www.inc.com/business-insider/best-google-benefits.html https://www.inc.com/business-insider/best-google-benefits.ht... doesn't work because inc.com got breached and shut down their website temporarily?

TrackerFF 4y ago

These posts always devolve into the same US vs Europe flame wars. Truth be told the US is simply a much more fertile ground for entrepreneurship, and has been for many decades. US companies have performed very well in the market, and thus dominate any sectors when it comes to tech. When you're practically printing money, you can pay whatever it takes. Some countries, like my own - Norway - have tax laws which are directly hostile towards startups and early founders. I feel that it's just in the past 10-15 years that the startup scene has really started to take off. Investors are much more modern in their mindsets, people are willing to dream a bit bigger than before. Who knows what the markets will look like in 10-20-30 years?

codegeek 4y ago
Grass is always greener on the other side. US is great if you are very capitalistic but are willing to deal with bullshit like shitty healthcare administration/Insurance company/crazy premiums/tied to employer etc etc, much less vacation days on an average (Yea I know some employers give u unlimited vacation but who are we kidding), lesser happiness index (european countries usually fare better here as well) and others. My sister lives in Finland. She has a nice stable job with amazing benefits both from her employer AND her Govt. Sure, she probably cannot start a business as easy as she can do here in the states BUT she is very happy and has a well balanced and peaceful life. She doesn't have to worry about Kids education cost, healthcare costs and what not. She got almost a year of maternity if I am remembering correctly. A year!! In US, good luck with that. I love America because I am hardcore capitalist and don't mind the other BS it brings but just saying American salaries are great and Europe sucks is comparing Apples to Oranges.
- TrackerFF 4y ago
  Oh, absolutely - I've worked in the US for some shorter stints (albeit through European companies), and there were things I loved and things I did not like. I think if you're extremely ambitious, willing to shoot your shot, and work hard - the US is a great place to be. It rewards winners handsomely, and punishes losers viciously. And this is something you see here in Europe. Those type of people do leave for the US, to make their fortune.

yttribium 4y ago

Doesn't do you much good when everyone is entering hiring freeze and layoffs for the rest of the cycle.

nsxwolf 4y ago

In general it doesn't seem like anyone is living high on the hog in California with these salaries and my remoting from the midwest, at lower pay, is the better deal.