4 ms·

We used Eiffel to build a funds transfer system way back when, Maybe 1990 or so. I met Bertrand a couple of times because my mentor was a huge fan. He built sys

We used Eiffel to build a funds transfer system way back when, Maybe 1990 or so. I met Bertrand a couple of times because my mentor was a huge fan. He built systems in banking using Modula-2 before Eiffel came along. Last I saw Bertrand he was in Santa Barbara. It feels like disciplined programming is not popular anymore in favor hacking, continuous releases, agile, scrum, etc.

asib 4y ago
What makes you say continuous deployment, agile, scrum are in contest with disciplined programming? Maybe I’m misinterpreting the meaning of that term.
mindcrime 4y ago
disciplined programming is not popular anymore in favor hacking, continuous releases, agile, scrum, etc. Wait what? Disciplined programming is not mutually exclusive with at least 3 of those 4 things (continuous releases, agile, scrum). If people treat those things as opposed to disciplined programming, it's because they don't understand the actual principles underlying them.
rramadass 4y ago
>It feels like disciplined programming is not popular anymore in favor hacking, continuous releases, agile, scrum, etc. Rightly said! I learnt "correct" OOD/OOP from his book Object-Oriented Software Construction (https://bertrandmeyer.com/oosc2/ https://bertrandmeyer.com/oosc2/). It was one of the few books which actually looked at "Programming in the Large" specifically through the Object-Oriented lens and also instituted "Design By Contract (DbC)" within the Eiffel language to support it. DbC is a "user-friendly" version of the correct programming techniques espoused by Floyd/Hoare/Dijkstra. One can also say that it subsumes other techniques like TDD since a post-condition is like a unit test in itself. It is a shame people no longer study Meyer's works with the seriousness they should (he maybe a pedant but it is the right sort of pedantry) but instead run after buzzwords/fad of the month. Here is Bertrand Meyer's take (the right one, imo) on Agile from his book Agile! The Good, the Hype and the Ugly - https://learning.acm.org/techtalks/agile https://learning.acm.org/techtalks/agile.

asib 4y ago

What makes you say continuous deployment, agile, scrum are in contest with disciplined programming? Maybe I’m misinterpreting the meaning of that term.

mindcrime 4y ago

disciplined programming is not popular anymore in favor hacking, continuous releases, agile, scrum, etc. Wait what? Disciplined programming is not mutually exclusive with at least 3 of those 4 things (continuous releases, agile, scrum). If people treat those things as opposed to disciplined programming, it's because they don't understand the actual principles underlying them.

rramadass 4y ago

>It feels like disciplined programming is not popular anymore in favor hacking, continuous releases, agile, scrum, etc. Rightly said! I learnt "correct" OOD/OOP from his book Object-Oriented Software Construction (https://bertrandmeyer.com/oosc2/ https://bertrandmeyer.com/oosc2/). It was one of the few books which actually looked at "Programming in the Large" specifically through the Object-Oriented lens and also instituted "Design By Contract (DbC)" within the Eiffel language to support it. DbC is a "user-friendly" version of the correct programming techniques espoused by Floyd/Hoare/Dijkstra. One can also say that it subsumes other techniques like TDD since a post-condition is like a unit test in itself. It is a shame people no longer study Meyer's works with the seriousness they should (he maybe a pedant but it is the right sort of pedantry) but instead run after buzzwords/fad of the month. Here is Bertrand Meyer's take (the right one, imo) on Agile from his book Agile! The Good, the Hype and the Ugly - https://learning.acm.org/techtalks/agile https://learning.acm.org/techtalks/agile.