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As a liberal and a gun owner, I think it's an intentional stance by both sides. Conservatives dislike gun safety training because unless it's in carefully cont

by Merad 4y ago

As a liberal and a gun owner, I think it's an intentional stance by both sides. Conservatives dislike gun safety training because unless it's in carefully controlled settings (i.e. controlled by conservative groups) because they're afraid it will be used to push a "guns are bad/guns are evil" narrative. Liberals don't like it because it's pretty hard to teach effective gun safety without actually handling and shooting firearms, and when people experience that they have a tendency to a) realize that guns aren't as scary and evil as they had been led to believe, and b) think that shooting sports are kind of fun.

dionidium 4y ago
In the milieu from which I hail -- conservative, small town in Missouri -- gun safety was taken very seriously and you would have been thought of as a dumb redneck if you didn't get it. Always treat the gun as loaded, never point it at anything you don't wish to kill, never rely on the safety, keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, etc, etc. These were drilled into my head as a child, along with never, ever, under any circumstances should you be anywhere near the gun safe without an adult present. Also, anecdotally, I once went to the range with someone who didn't grow up around these rules, who carelessly drew his weapon across the body of someone at an adjacent stall and was immediately and forcefully reprimanded and humiliated (deservedly) by one of the attendants. People do take this stuff seriously.
- Merad 4y ago
  IME at least people who are really into guns are also very serious about gun safety. The problems mostly tend to come from those guys who bought an AR or pistol because it seemed cool who only take their guns out of the case once or twice a year. Unfortunately in a country the size of the US there are a lot of people in the latter group. WRT to training, I'm of the opinion that if we as a country are going to maintain a relatively unrestricted right to bear arms (which I'm in favor of), the responsible course of action is to have broad gun safety training. Personally I'd make it part of the high school curriculum, just like english or algebra. That's where I start to hear objections from conservatives - they're totally in favor of people seeking training, after all those people probably already have an interest in guns and they're most likely seeking training from a pro-gun source, but they're concerned about broader required training being hijacked by anti-gun groups. And they probably aren't wrong, but I don't think we should ignore addressing the problem just because some people would abuse the solution.
- zach_garwood 4y ago
  Also from small town Missouri here. You're description is certainly accurate for people going to a range, but I've seen (and participated in) impromptu shooting ranges in someone's back acre, and most people I've observed had no idea how guns work outside of movies and are perfectly willing to handle a firearm while drinking alcohol. _Some_ people do take this stuff seriously. But I think they're in the minority.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Guns are fun and holding one in your hands isn't particularly frightening. Watch a child get shot in the face and tell me they aren't evil though.
- Merad 4y ago
  Does a child being stabbed in the face make knives evil? Or a child being crushed by a car make vehicles evil? Guns are inanimate objects and I don't really understand the desire to assign them attributes like "evil." There are absolutely evil people who use guns to do evil things, but the same can be said for many other objects.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    This is a twisted line of argument and you know it. Of course I don't think guns are literally animated by evil spirits or something similar. It's an easily understood metaphor that nearly anyone would recognize and understand, are you claiming you don't? It's also wack to pretend that guns are just one kind among all the objects that can exist and not special in any particular way. Again it's not likely that you believe that. Guns are set aside in that they are designed exclusively for one person to cause misery and death to another, and are spectacularly good at it, and are suited for virtually no other purpose. A knife with poison on the tip, or barbs on the blade, intended to maim and kill and unsuited for other uses? Yes, that would be evil, as a gun is. Hunting rifles and target shooting guns? Yes those are tools for another purpose that can be misused for harm, as a cooking knife or a car can. But these aren't the things we're talking about are we? I'm not a fool, or incapable of judgement and nuance, so don't try to condense this view as if I am. Guns are exceptional, in how well made they are for their purpose, how terrible that purpose is, and how frequently they are applied to it. The fact that other things have some or all of these qualities doesn't really change the calculus.

by Merad 4y ago

dionidium 4y ago

In the milieu from which I hail -- conservative, small town in Missouri -- gun safety was taken very seriously and you would have been thought of as a dumb redneck if you didn't get it. Always treat the gun as loaded, never point it at anything you don't wish to kill, never rely on the safety, keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, etc, etc. These were drilled into my head as a child, along with never, ever, under any circumstances should you be anywhere near the gun safe without an adult present. Also, anecdotally, I once went to the range with someone who didn't grow up around these rules, who carelessly drew his weapon across the body of someone at an adjacent stall and was immediately and forcefully reprimanded and humiliated (deservedly) by one of the attendants. People do take this stuff seriously.

Merad 4y ago
IME at least people who are really into guns are also very serious about gun safety. The problems mostly tend to come from those guys who bought an AR or pistol because it seemed cool who only take their guns out of the case once or twice a year. Unfortunately in a country the size of the US there are a lot of people in the latter group. WRT to training, I'm of the opinion that if we as a country are going to maintain a relatively unrestricted right to bear arms (which I'm in favor of), the responsible course of action is to have broad gun safety training. Personally I'd make it part of the high school curriculum, just like english or algebra. That's where I start to hear objections from conservatives - they're totally in favor of people seeking training, after all those people probably already have an interest in guns and they're most likely seeking training from a pro-gun source, but they're concerned about broader required training being hijacked by anti-gun groups. And they probably aren't wrong, but I don't think we should ignore addressing the problem just because some people would abuse the solution.
zach_garwood 4y ago
Also from small town Missouri here. You're description is certainly accurate for people going to a range, but I've seen (and participated in) impromptu shooting ranges in someone's back acre, and most people I've observed had no idea how guns work outside of movies and are perfectly willing to handle a firearm while drinking alcohol. _Some_ people do take this stuff seriously. But I think they're in the minority.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Guns are fun and holding one in your hands isn't particularly frightening. Watch a child get shot in the face and tell me they aren't evil though.

Merad 4y ago
Does a child being stabbed in the face make knives evil? Or a child being crushed by a car make vehicles evil? Guns are inanimate objects and I don't really understand the desire to assign them attributes like "evil." There are absolutely evil people who use guns to do evil things, but the same can be said for many other objects.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  This is a twisted line of argument and you know it. Of course I don't think guns are literally animated by evil spirits or something similar. It's an easily understood metaphor that nearly anyone would recognize and understand, are you claiming you don't? It's also wack to pretend that guns are just one kind among all the objects that can exist and not special in any particular way. Again it's not likely that you believe that. Guns are set aside in that they are designed exclusively for one person to cause misery and death to another, and are spectacularly good at it, and are suited for virtually no other purpose. A knife with poison on the tip, or barbs on the blade, intended to maim and kill and unsuited for other uses? Yes, that would be evil, as a gun is. Hunting rifles and target shooting guns? Yes those are tools for another purpose that can be misused for harm, as a cooking knife or a car can. But these aren't the things we're talking about are we? I'm not a fool, or incapable of judgement and nuance, so don't try to condense this view as if I am. Guns are exceptional, in how well made they are for their purpose, how terrible that purpose is, and how frequently they are applied to it. The fact that other things have some or all of these qualities doesn't really change the calculus.