2 ms·

I think this actually a serious issue and I’m disappointed that the comments are mostly defensive. If I had to pick two things that have led to adults acting l

I think this actually a serious issue and I’m disappointed that the comments are mostly defensive. If I had to pick two things that have led to adults acting like children, it would be: - the lack of any real “coming of age” ritual in Western culture. The closest we get is going to college, which has developed into something deliberately removed from adult reality - the slow removal of cultural rules that indicated a space was to be taken seriously. For example, wearing a suit and caring about your appearance, not using swear words in public, keeping details of your private life to yourself, and so on. I read somewhere that memes are the artform of the contemporary Zeitgeist, which makes a ton of sense to me. Memes are funny but ultimately just easy, fast-food-style culture. They would not be the predominant art form in a society capable of building something more complex, spiritual, and long-term, like a medieval cathedral or an Italian Renaissance sculpture.

overthemoon 4y ago
I too am disappointed in the defensiveness. It's a completely valid point, and using Japan as a precursor in this narrative was really enlightening, I think. There are a million causes and effects one could talk about here, supporting all manner of ideologies, and of course I've got my own. But that people are increasingly preoccupied with meaningless, child-like consumption, of fun over joy, is actually a problem. I say this as a big nerd who likes games and comics and so forth, which I think is where some of the defensiveness comes in. I don't think the problem is located in liking comics. It's in making comics your identity. It's adopting the identity of a fan, a consumer, of making that your outward image, that makes people more childish and less trustworthy, less serious, and easier to control.
mistermann 4y ago
Not the predominant art form maybe, but I think they could have fundamental importance to a sophisticated culture. A culture that takes memes seriously, that can publicly acknowledge and defend/reconcile itself with truths that memes can so often reveal and illustrate so brutally efficiently (at times, not always) may be much more powerful than one that (often) dismisses them due to triviality / "fake news", or (~secretly) uses them to dismiss inconvenient facts (or, simply doesn't really take them seriously, etc). Memes, the non-visual ideas kind (inaccurate generalizations, "fact"oids, figures of speech, cognitive norms if you don't mind stretching the definition a bit, etc) play a huge role in human communication, but this is so fundamental that it seems to be sub-perceptual and thus evades our attention and consideration.
francisofascii 4y ago
I largely agree with your sentiment. One small nit about wearing a suit, which is one cultural norm I am happy to dispose of except for weddings and funerals. I think is is possible to look neat and convey seriousness wearing an appropriate T-shirt and comfortable pants that fit properly, especially for day to day activities like going to work in 90 degree weather.
- Balgair 4y ago
  Emerson's Manners is a great read on fashion in general: https://archive.vcu.edu/english/engweb/transcendentalism/authors/emerson/essays/manners.html https://archive.vcu.edu/english/engweb/transcendentalism/aut...
archagon 4y ago
What we perceive as the “predominant art” of the Renaissance was funded and hoarded by the rich and powerful, and produced by a scant few individuals.

overthemoon 4y ago

I too am disappointed in the defensiveness. It's a completely valid point, and using Japan as a precursor in this narrative was really enlightening, I think. There are a million causes and effects one could talk about here, supporting all manner of ideologies, and of course I've got my own. But that people are increasingly preoccupied with meaningless, child-like consumption, of fun over joy, is actually a problem. I say this as a big nerd who likes games and comics and so forth, which I think is where some of the defensiveness comes in. I don't think the problem is located in liking comics. It's in making comics your identity. It's adopting the identity of a fan, a consumer, of making that your outward image, that makes people more childish and less trustworthy, less serious, and easier to control.

mistermann 4y ago

Not the predominant art form maybe, but I think they could have fundamental importance to a sophisticated culture. A culture that takes memes seriously, that can publicly acknowledge and defend/reconcile itself with truths that memes can so often reveal and illustrate so brutally efficiently (at times, not always) may be much more powerful than one that (often) dismisses them due to triviality / "fake news", or (~secretly) uses them to dismiss inconvenient facts (or, simply doesn't really take them seriously, etc). Memes, the non-visual ideas kind (inaccurate generalizations, "fact"oids, figures of speech, cognitive norms if you don't mind stretching the definition a bit, etc) play a huge role in human communication, but this is so fundamental that it seems to be sub-perceptual and thus evades our attention and consideration.

francisofascii 4y ago

I largely agree with your sentiment. One small nit about wearing a suit, which is one cultural norm I am happy to dispose of except for weddings and funerals. I think is is possible to look neat and convey seriousness wearing an appropriate T-shirt and comfortable pants that fit properly, especially for day to day activities like going to work in 90 degree weather.

Balgair 4y ago
Emerson's Manners is a great read on fashion in general: https://archive.vcu.edu/english/engweb/transcendentalism/authors/emerson/essays/manners.html https://archive.vcu.edu/english/engweb/transcendentalism/aut...

archagon 4y ago

What we perceive as the “predominant art” of the Renaissance was funded and hoarded by the rich and powerful, and produced by a scant few individuals.