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I have to admit this is a bit surprising from Musk. I was pretty firmly of the theory that his real motive re Twitter was basically narcissism, and I'm still no

I have to admit this is a bit surprising from Musk. I was pretty firmly of the theory that his real motive re Twitter was basically narcissism, and I'm still not sure that's wrong. I note he's not agreeing strongly with Dorsey, with the strongest phrase being "I'd like to help if I can". And I still think he would be better off using any money he might have spent buying Twitter on funding a handful of open source competitors instead. The most charitable reason I can think of for trying to salvage Twitter for this grand goal of fixing web communication is to keep the network effect of having everyone be there. Would that even be meaningful in a real transition to something with a totally different architecture?

vernon99 4y ago
Why would this transition ever happen? Network effect is too strong. How open-sourcedness of an alternative would help with this fact?
- stefs 4y ago
  network effects are overcome all the time. all the social networks are dying sooner or later. even facebook is panicking because they're losing the next generation and instagram is panically trying to emulate tiktok or whatever because they have _something_.
  - shapefrog 4y ago
    MySpace
  - beoberha 4y ago
    I agree that most social media networks have been cyclical, but Twitter seems to stand the test of time. Maybe not with the youngest generations, but Twitter definitely hasn’t seen the exodus that Facebook has.
brandall10 4y ago
It’s likely 99.9% of Twitter’s user base does not care about this issue. Would be hard to build a product that is compelling enough to overcome the extreme network effect of something that is arguably a utility.
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
There is no solution for fixing web communication that doesn't involve uploading your ID every time you post something. The internet was, is and always will be a cesspool. It comes with anonimity and plausible deniability.
- throwaway0asd 4y ago
  Anonymity is a design choice of HTTP. What if there were a different protocol where the users are never anonymous. You never have to transmit ID in that case because sockets are only established between trusted end points
  - evancox100 4y ago
    “Trusted” in what sense? Uploading your ID is a form of trust verification, trusting that the person posting is who they say they are.
- rocqua 4y ago
  Even if you require ID, the internet will always feel less personal. This started because of anonymity, but it could very well be embedded into the culture by now. Just because we feel that 'things on the internet do not count'. That is caused by anonymity; but also obscurity of your actions; the impersonal connection; the fact that you are communicating to the entire world; the fact that your interlocutor is someone you barely know, a lot of 'bad' digital communication is the first and last time two people are talking at each-other; and the fact that a lot of communication on the internet is largely performative because it is public. In summary, removing anonymity alone will probably not get close to fixing things.
- mixmax 4y ago
  Ironic that you write this comment on hacker news
  - MomoXenosaga 4y ago
    HN has mods. Which would be considered censorship by libertarians. Ofcourse if you get down to it everyone wants censorship to remove things they don't agree with. A very amusing/sad example is Reddit.
parkingrift 4y ago
Musk and his team put together a fundraising deck and were actively looking for investors. It was never vanity for Musk. The deck was pretty clear about what Musk thought Twitter could become.
bmitc 4y ago
Narcissists can get caught up in their own narcissism. It clouds everything.
hardnose 4y ago
>I was pretty firmly of the theory that his real motive re Twitter was basically narcissism, and I'm still not sure that's wrong. Why is it so hard to believe that Musk genuinely believes in exactly the version of "freedom of speech" that everyone in his generation grew up with, that served as the impetus for much of the internet's creation, etc.?
- malshe 4y ago
  I wonder whether Elon supports the freedom of speech in China
- weeblewobble 4y ago
  It seems like a lot of people (Rogan, the Thiel guys, Calcanis) are coming to him talking about free speech, and he kind of nods along, but I didn't really see anything that demonstrated his own passion for the topic. He seems primarily motivated by a belief that Twitter is poorly run as a business, and that it will be difficult or impossible to turn it around as a public company.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  Because if that's his real motivation, it's more efficient to build a competitor. It would probably be even more efficient to put polish on existing competitors like Mastodon. Buying Twitter is one of the silliest possible approaches. Thus, skepticism.
- p49k 4y ago
  Because this viewpoint isn’t consistent with his actions; he has a long history of retaliating against anyone who criticizes him, including attacking journalists and threatening them with lawsuits as well as firing employees who raise issues within his companies.
  - robswc 4y ago
    How is "retaliating against criticism" contradictory to free speech? I could certainly argue with someone on HN but also say their banning is unjust (if I felt that it was). This has been a "solved" issue for centuries. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/

vernon99 4y ago

Why would this transition ever happen? Network effect is too strong. How open-sourcedness of an alternative would help with this fact?

stefs 4y ago
network effects are overcome all the time. all the social networks are dying sooner or later. even facebook is panicking because they're losing the next generation and instagram is panically trying to emulate tiktok or whatever because they have _something_.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  MySpace
- beoberha 4y ago
  I agree that most social media networks have been cyclical, but Twitter seems to stand the test of time. Maybe not with the youngest generations, but Twitter definitely hasn’t seen the exodus that Facebook has.

brandall10 4y ago

It’s likely 99.9% of Twitter’s user base does not care about this issue. Would be hard to build a product that is compelling enough to overcome the extreme network effect of something that is arguably a utility.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

There is no solution for fixing web communication that doesn't involve uploading your ID every time you post something. The internet was, is and always will be a cesspool. It comes with anonimity and plausible deniability.

throwaway0asd 4y ago
Anonymity is a design choice of HTTP. What if there were a different protocol where the users are never anonymous. You never have to transmit ID in that case because sockets are only established between trusted end points
- evancox100 4y ago
  “Trusted” in what sense? Uploading your ID is a form of trust verification, trusting that the person posting is who they say they are.
rocqua 4y ago
Even if you require ID, the internet will always feel less personal. This started because of anonymity, but it could very well be embedded into the culture by now. Just because we feel that 'things on the internet do not count'. That is caused by anonymity; but also obscurity of your actions; the impersonal connection; the fact that you are communicating to the entire world; the fact that your interlocutor is someone you barely know, a lot of 'bad' digital communication is the first and last time two people are talking at each-other; and the fact that a lot of communication on the internet is largely performative because it is public. In summary, removing anonymity alone will probably not get close to fixing things.
mixmax 4y ago
Ironic that you write this comment on hacker news
- MomoXenosaga 4y ago
  HN has mods. Which would be considered censorship by libertarians. Ofcourse if you get down to it everyone wants censorship to remove things they don't agree with. A very amusing/sad example is Reddit.

parkingrift 4y ago

Musk and his team put together a fundraising deck and were actively looking for investors. It was never vanity for Musk. The deck was pretty clear about what Musk thought Twitter could become.

bmitc 4y ago

Narcissists can get caught up in their own narcissism. It clouds everything.

hardnose 4y ago

>I was pretty firmly of the theory that his real motive re Twitter was basically narcissism, and I'm still not sure that's wrong. Why is it so hard to believe that Musk genuinely believes in exactly the version of "freedom of speech" that everyone in his generation grew up with, that served as the impetus for much of the internet's creation, etc.?

malshe 4y ago
I wonder whether Elon supports the freedom of speech in China
weeblewobble 4y ago
It seems like a lot of people (Rogan, the Thiel guys, Calcanis) are coming to him talking about free speech, and he kind of nods along, but I didn't really see anything that demonstrated his own passion for the topic. He seems primarily motivated by a belief that Twitter is poorly run as a business, and that it will be difficult or impossible to turn it around as a public company.
andrewflnr 4y ago
Because if that's his real motivation, it's more efficient to build a competitor. It would probably be even more efficient to put polish on existing competitors like Mastodon. Buying Twitter is one of the silliest possible approaches. Thus, skepticism.
p49k 4y ago
Because this viewpoint isn’t consistent with his actions; he has a long history of retaliating against anyone who criticizes him, including attacking journalists and threatening them with lawsuits as well as firing employees who raise issues within his companies.
- robswc 4y ago
  How is "retaliating against criticism" contradictory to free speech? I could certainly argue with someone on HN but also say their banning is unjust (if I felt that it was). This has been a "solved" issue for centuries. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/06/01/defend-say/