3 ms·

Bitcoin can't do that. Bitcoin will consume as much cheap energy as it can get. This leads to more consumption of energy through Bitcoin and not less. There i

Bitcoin can't do that. Bitcoin will consume as much cheap energy as it can get. This leads to more consumption of energy through Bitcoin and not less. There is a slo nothing worse for Bitcoin to not keeping it running. So the incentive is also to be were you can run it reliable. And as usual the pure capitalistical economy is shit in regulating itself therefore laws are required (we already have tons of laws to protect people because stuff like asbestos is great as long as you don't pay for the hospital bill). Bitcoin takes energy and increases demand for solar etc while consuming it and making it unavailable. It even eats solar panels as Bitcoin is a global market while energy is more often than not local. It's quite depressing to see such kind of nonsense when we clearly in a position were climate change costs us more and more every year and we still talk about bullshit arguments from Bitcoin instead of talking how to cleanup our current mess. IF Bitcoin/crypto can be an interesting side hustle AFTER we solved climate change, I don't know. But Bitcoin will not stop the droughts etc.

strings29 4y ago
Whats nonsense, is this idea that Bitcoin will consume as much energy as it can get. That's complete bullshit. Bitcoin mining is not static. The difficulty adjustment is specifically designed so that blocks are found in an eta of 10min . This means that there are diminishing returns. There is a limit to how much energy can be used before it's no longer economically feasible to mine. Whats worst is you discuss energy locality. But you failed to consider energy capture in locations where is is not feasible to transport the energy or there is no way to use the energy. eg Bitcoin mining at remote natural gas sites using methane which normally just be burnt off to CO2 reaping no financial benefits. This alone could make Bitcoin carbon negative. Not to mention landfill methane etc etc. The idea that using less energy to foster more efficient energy is ridiculous. The only way to drive greener energy is to foster competition and intensives to innovate greener technologies. Which is exactly what Bitcoin does. There no way a free society can dictate what people use energy for, simply because some people disagree on whats useful to them but not others. It's completely anti competitive. And anti-competitive practices will always stifle innovation. I'm not here to change your mind. I'm simply setting the record straight. Due to the distributed nature of Bitcoin your laws are pointless. Bitcoin mining will move to more innovative locations. But beware those place will gain all of the benefits that healthy competition provides and they will end up with far superior electrical grids then locations that stifle innovation.
- Telemoto 4y ago
  You are repeating the same flawed arguments. Bitcoin miner are not best buddies. It's a market. Miner a has a high incentive to mine as much as possible with the cheapest energy. This is of course capped somewhere but you will creat a lot of waste in the process. And about those other things like Natural gas: just to be very very clear: a society which wastes non renewable energy by just burning it of (with or without Bitcoin actually doesn't matter) instead of incentivising to capture and use it, is broken and needs the right incentive to do so as those things DO NOT regenerate. Yes we would need to forbid companies to get 99% of the gas with great profits and burn the rest just because it would reduce their profits a little bit. This is just green washing. And anti competitive is also wrong. We already do that in our markets. We already are in regulated markets and it did not stifle innovation. It redirected it.
  - strings29 4y ago
    They cant mine as much as possible. 6.25 bitcoins will be mined every 10min from now till 2024 ish. Due to the variable difficultly there is a cap as to how many miners can mine and remain profitable. If there high energy usage at all it simply means bitcoin has that much value otherwise it would not be worth mining at all. * which refutes the whole bitcoin has no value argument * There is no incentive to move methane from remote locations. The volume would probably not make it physically possible to do, never mind economical. Not to mention waste more fossil fuels ie diesel. And besides you completely overlook remote locations that cant afford infrastructure do to costs and low dense population. Bitcoin would make infrastructure profitable in those cases. Bitcoin is easy to setup one container box plus sat up-ink. Seeing as how this ensures the methane is burnt of and also provides incentive to do so. I fail to see your complaint here. Whats even more insulting is people are using the fact bitcoins is transparent and deterministic to quantify how much energy is uses (which is less then clothes dryers by a factor of 5 BTW) . Meanwhile they are enjoying all their guilty pleasures hiding behind the fact we cant even quantify their energy use. It's just ridicules to think xbox and video cards etc etc have value. But providing banking to the estimated 1.8 billion people without a bank account has no value. We've seen this kinda of thing before. In short it always boils done "we don't see the value". How can a computer widget have value after all. And the precise answer is because it's tethered in the real world . You cant make something from nothing. Ultimately it doesn't matter because you cant stop/attack it. More energy will be wasted then bitcoin uses trying to stop it and still won't succeed. I suggest you conserve your efforts (energy)

strings29 4y ago

Whats nonsense, is this idea that Bitcoin will consume as much energy as it can get. That's complete bullshit. Bitcoin mining is not static. The difficulty adjustment is specifically designed so that blocks are found in an eta of 10min . This means that there are diminishing returns. There is a limit to how much energy can be used before it's no longer economically feasible to mine. Whats worst is you discuss energy locality. But you failed to consider energy capture in locations where is is not feasible to transport the energy or there is no way to use the energy. eg Bitcoin mining at remote natural gas sites using methane which normally just be burnt off to CO2 reaping no financial benefits. This alone could make Bitcoin carbon negative. Not to mention landfill methane etc etc. The idea that using less energy to foster more efficient energy is ridiculous. The only way to drive greener energy is to foster competition and intensives to innovate greener technologies. Which is exactly what Bitcoin does. There no way a free society can dictate what people use energy for, simply because some people disagree on whats useful to them but not others. It's completely anti competitive. And anti-competitive practices will always stifle innovation. I'm not here to change your mind. I'm simply setting the record straight. Due to the distributed nature of Bitcoin your laws are pointless. Bitcoin mining will move to more innovative locations. But beware those place will gain all of the benefits that healthy competition provides and they will end up with far superior electrical grids then locations that stifle innovation.

Telemoto 4y ago
You are repeating the same flawed arguments. Bitcoin miner are not best buddies. It's a market. Miner a has a high incentive to mine as much as possible with the cheapest energy. This is of course capped somewhere but you will creat a lot of waste in the process. And about those other things like Natural gas: just to be very very clear: a society which wastes non renewable energy by just burning it of (with or without Bitcoin actually doesn't matter) instead of incentivising to capture and use it, is broken and needs the right incentive to do so as those things DO NOT regenerate. Yes we would need to forbid companies to get 99% of the gas with great profits and burn the rest just because it would reduce their profits a little bit. This is just green washing. And anti competitive is also wrong. We already do that in our markets. We already are in regulated markets and it did not stifle innovation. It redirected it.
- strings29 4y ago
  They cant mine as much as possible. 6.25 bitcoins will be mined every 10min from now till 2024 ish. Due to the variable difficultly there is a cap as to how many miners can mine and remain profitable. If there high energy usage at all it simply means bitcoin has that much value otherwise it would not be worth mining at all. * which refutes the whole bitcoin has no value argument * There is no incentive to move methane from remote locations. The volume would probably not make it physically possible to do, never mind economical. Not to mention waste more fossil fuels ie diesel. And besides you completely overlook remote locations that cant afford infrastructure do to costs and low dense population. Bitcoin would make infrastructure profitable in those cases. Bitcoin is easy to setup one container box plus sat up-ink. Seeing as how this ensures the methane is burnt of and also provides incentive to do so. I fail to see your complaint here. Whats even more insulting is people are using the fact bitcoins is transparent and deterministic to quantify how much energy is uses (which is less then clothes dryers by a factor of 5 BTW) . Meanwhile they are enjoying all their guilty pleasures hiding behind the fact we cant even quantify their energy use. It's just ridicules to think xbox and video cards etc etc have value. But providing banking to the estimated 1.8 billion people without a bank account has no value. We've seen this kinda of thing before. In short it always boils done "we don't see the value". How can a computer widget have value after all. And the precise answer is because it's tethered in the real world . You cant make something from nothing. Ultimately it doesn't matter because you cant stop/attack it. More energy will be wasted then bitcoin uses trying to stop it and still won't succeed. I suggest you conserve your efforts (energy)