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I run a startup, so I'm on the other side of the fence, but to me it sounds like you've encountered repercussions because of your attitude. As a founder, I love

I run a startup, so I'm on the other side of the fence, but to me it sounds like you've encountered repercussions because of your attitude. As a founder, I love when people ask questions, do their legal diligence, specify their compensation requirements up front so no one's time is wasted, ask about market challenges, and yes, even negotiate for a fair compensation if I haven't been paying attention and it turns out they're underpaid. (Sometimes I loathe having candidates go elsewhere because big-cos can offer them a higher salary, but if I can't sell them on the vision/culture, I always wish them well). What I cannot stand is people that are being jerks about it. The guy that opens the first five minutes of an interview with an antagonistic question about stock options before we even got through the first technical question. The smug guy that comes into our office and starts pointing out holes in our product/strategy barely after we said our hellos (I've only been working on the company for two years, don't you think I thought of that?). The gal that can't program her way out of a for loop, and claims to everyone who's willing to listen she's being discriminated against. Believe it or not, not everyone is out to get you. Some people are genuinely trying to do good work, have everyone well compensated with equity, and pay fair salaries while not running out of cash too early. If you're unhappy with the compensation, nobody will fault you if you leave for greener pastures. It's the smug, antagonistic, cynical jerks that everyone hates.

calibraxis 15y ago
I've met my fair share of founder jerks. Whether or not you and I are jerks is immaterial to the fact that when haggling over money, each side is in an antagonistic relationship. Each is rewarded for extracting virtually as much as they can from the other. (Personally, I think it's an absurd system.) And I don't know about you, but I do know a gal who CAN "program her way out of a for loop" — I've seen her do it, such females actually exist — and if you're a decent listener, they may do you the favor of telling you about the extra crap they face due to men's kooky gender ideologies. Anyway that said, I agree you can hack somewhat better pay out of a manager by handling them properly. Much of their professional world is social, so they are extra-sensitive to social cues. And software developers at this moment have far stronger bargaining positions than many other workers. Among the advice that helped me (but YMMV): * Reading _Getting to Yes_. There are alternatives to domination and passivity. * Asking more than their highest range — if they negotiate me down, I did something right. * Building my bargaining position by: increasing my relevant knowledge/ability, being a good presenter and listener/talker, overkilling the technical puzzles which you can do at home, and being able to walk away from a given deal. AI prof Patrick Winston has helpful tips on giving presentations: (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9F536001A3C605FC http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9F536001A3C605FC) * Note that the initial hiring decision is when the market transaction is made. If you get it right, having brought your forces to bear on it, it's out of the way. (David Graber's _Debt: The First 5000 Years_ has some interesting words on this phenomenon.) Of course, the goal depends on whether you're negotiating with a wealthy firm, a cash-strapped startup, or a social justice organization.

calibraxis 15y ago

I've met my fair share of founder jerks. Whether or not you and I are jerks is immaterial to the fact that when haggling over money, each side is in an antagonistic relationship. Each is rewarded for extracting virtually as much as they can from the other. (Personally, I think it's an absurd system.) And I don't know about you, but I do know a gal who CAN "program her way out of a for loop" — I've seen her do it, such females actually exist — and if you're a decent listener, they may do you the favor of telling you about the extra crap they face due to men's kooky gender ideologies. Anyway that said, I agree you can hack somewhat better pay out of a manager by handling them properly. Much of their professional world is social, so they are extra-sensitive to social cues. And software developers at this moment have far stronger bargaining positions than many other workers. Among the advice that helped me (but YMMV): * Reading _Getting to Yes_. There are alternatives to domination and passivity. * Asking more than their highest range — if they negotiate me down, I did something right. * Building my bargaining position by: increasing my relevant knowledge/ability, being a good presenter and listener/talker, overkilling the technical puzzles which you can do at home, and being able to walk away from a given deal. AI prof Patrick Winston has helpful tips on giving presentations: (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9F536001A3C605FC http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9F536001A3C605FC) * Note that the initial hiring decision is when the market transaction is made. If you get it right, having brought your forces to bear on it, it's out of the way. (David Graber's _Debt: The First 5000 Years_ has some interesting words on this phenomenon.) Of course, the goal depends on whether you're negotiating with a wealthy firm, a cash-strapped startup, or a social justice organization.