4 ms·

Uh, no. You cannot e.g. listen to a Radiohead song and "look at the approach and simply rewrite it" for instance if you want to be entirely clear of copyright l

Uh, no. You cannot e.g. listen to a Radiohead song and "look at the approach and simply rewrite it" for instance if you want to be entirely clear of copyright liability - same applies for software.

userbinator 4y ago
No, otherwise authors of books would be suing everyone who read them and learned their ideas.
seba_dos1 4y ago
Of course you can. That's what a huge chunk of art ever created does. You're only (potentially) in trouble when you make it obvious.
the_af 4y ago
Isn't copyright about copying verbatim (or with trivial enough changes that it remains recognizably the same) large enough sections of the protected work?
- jcelerier 4y ago
  At least not in my country (France). At the very least changing the pitch, and rhythm and interpretation of a melody is not enough to make it an original work there. To give a very concrete example: french singer Claude François made the song Comme d'habitude: https://youtu.be/avr5nvY4wxg https://youtu.be/avr5nvY4wxg It was translated and rewritten a few times but he still is recognized as one of the copyright owners on those covers, e.g. https://youtu.be/qQzdAsjWGPg https://youtu.be/qQzdAsjWGPg which are definitely not just a mechanical rewrite of the original score
  - seba_dos1 4y ago
    There's a difference between creating a derivative work and analyzing how something is done in order to create something new based on that knowledge. You can make songs in style of Led Zeppelin that sound like they could be written and performed by Led Zeppelin without violating any copyrights (and to be able to do that you obviously need to know some Led Zeppelin songs beforehand), but you can't take "Dazed and Confused", change the guitar solo and part of the lyrics and call it done... Well, at least unless you end up as big as Led Zeppelin was before someone catches you, I guess ;)
    - jcelerier 4y ago
      > Well, at least unless you end up as big as Led Zeppelin was before someone catches you, I guess ;) Are you talking about the Led Zeppelin who get entangled in judicial pursuits for plagiarism every couple years? If it was as clear cut as you say it is it would never reach any judge. There is even one case where someone was condemned for not copying any specific song but the general style of another musician : Pharrell Williams had to pay 5M to the Marvin Gaye estate because of this https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style-enough-warrant-copyright-infringement/ https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style... https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2018/07/blurred-lines-between-inspiration-and-infringement https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2018/07/blurred-lines-b... Yes, this is extremely shitty but this is the world we live in
      - seba_dos1 4y ago
        > Are you talking about the Led Zeppelin who get entangled in judicial pursuits for plagiarism every couple years? Yes, I intentionally mentioned a song "by Page – inspired by Jake Holmes": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_(song)#Led_Zeppelin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_(song)#Led_... > The Ninth Circuit stated that the appeal was decided “on narrow grounds” and that the “decision does not give license to copyright a musical style or ‘groove.’” What a pile of bullshit. I wasn't aware of that case.

Uh, no. You cannot e.g. listen to a Radiohead song and "look at the approach and simply rewrite it" for instance if you want to be entirely clear of copyright liability - same applies for software.

userbinator 4y ago

No, otherwise authors of books would be suing everyone who read them and learned their ideas.

seba_dos1 4y ago

Of course you can. That's what a huge chunk of art ever created does. You're only (potentially) in trouble when you make it obvious.

the_af 4y ago

Isn't copyright about copying verbatim (or with trivial enough changes that it remains recognizably the same) large enough sections of the protected work?

jcelerier 4y ago
At least not in my country (France). At the very least changing the pitch, and rhythm and interpretation of a melody is not enough to make it an original work there. To give a very concrete example: french singer Claude François made the song Comme d'habitude: https://youtu.be/avr5nvY4wxg https://youtu.be/avr5nvY4wxg It was translated and rewritten a few times but he still is recognized as one of the copyright owners on those covers, e.g. https://youtu.be/qQzdAsjWGPg https://youtu.be/qQzdAsjWGPg which are definitely not just a mechanical rewrite of the original score
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  There's a difference between creating a derivative work and analyzing how something is done in order to create something new based on that knowledge. You can make songs in style of Led Zeppelin that sound like they could be written and performed by Led Zeppelin without violating any copyrights (and to be able to do that you obviously need to know some Led Zeppelin songs beforehand), but you can't take "Dazed and Confused", change the guitar solo and part of the lyrics and call it done... Well, at least unless you end up as big as Led Zeppelin was before someone catches you, I guess ;)
  - jcelerier 4y ago
    > Well, at least unless you end up as big as Led Zeppelin was before someone catches you, I guess ;) Are you talking about the Led Zeppelin who get entangled in judicial pursuits for plagiarism every couple years? If it was as clear cut as you say it is it would never reach any judge. There is even one case where someone was condemned for not copying any specific song but the general style of another musician : Pharrell Williams had to pay 5M to the Marvin Gaye estate because of this https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style-enough-warrant-copyright-infringement/ https://rpjlaw.com/blurred-lines-copying-songs-musical-style... https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2018/07/blurred-lines-between-inspiration-and-infringement https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2018/07/blurred-lines-b... Yes, this is extremely shitty but this is the world we live in
    - seba_dos1 4y ago
      > Are you talking about the Led Zeppelin who get entangled in judicial pursuits for plagiarism every couple years? Yes, I intentionally mentioned a song "by Page – inspired by Jake Holmes": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_(song)#Led_Zeppelin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_(song)#Led_... > The Ninth Circuit stated that the appeal was decided “on narrow grounds” and that the “decision does not give license to copyright a musical style or ‘groove.’” What a pile of bullshit. I wasn't aware of that case.