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Back in the 80's, I remember that people were protesting without internet and mobile phones, with very successful results. They bought down the iron curtain aft

Back in the 80's, I remember that people were protesting without internet and mobile phones, with very successful results. They bought down the iron curtain after all. The most sophisticated technology they used was the printing press, for printing and distributing fliers, newspapers and censored books. Underground groups were organized in cells too, without phones, email or apps. Right now, it seems like those who use the internet and phones are at a disadvantage. Phones are always tracked, and the internet is a giant surveillance tool. If the government controls the network, then it is always at a great advantage, no matter if VPN or Tor is used.

zwkrt 4y ago
People can protest without the Internet. However, they’re at a greater disadvantage than protesters in the 80s because the government does have the Internet.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
Back in the 80s, the number of people who had been and were killed organizing this way had a lot of zeroes at the end of it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for a low tech approach to security where it makes sense, but it’s not a panacea. And it’s not like this evolving movement wasn’t organizing the same way at the same time, we’ve learned more from them than the inverse.
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  we’ve learned more from them than the inverse Adding to this, their security forces learned a great deal as well. Here is a brief talk on this covering a little bit of the protest history and what is likely to occur. [1] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooROZDeds8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooROZDeds8o [video 4 mins]
mschuster91 4y ago
> Back in the 80's, I remember that people were protesting without internet and mobile phones, with very successful results. Back then, the governments didn't have that either. Pigs on the streets with barely working (or understandable) radios, outdated huge paper maps, and if they were lucky a barely working chopper for a bit of aerial surveillance. The only tools were water cannons, batons, tear gas that didn't work against drunk people, shields and live ammo. These days, the abilities of governments in counter-protesting are absurd: - each pig has not just a radio with high quality audio transmission, but also a digital data channel for streaming video and other intel in both directions - tons of surveillance cameras with high definition imaging sensors - cheap-ass drones - there are multiple vendors offering "data fusion" for command centers. Think of platforms that fuse everything into one cohesive environment: a Google Maps map and satellite view, with individual position markers for each unit, live feeds from thousands of surveillance cameras, live feeds from officer body cameras, live feeds from drones and choppers, AI analyzing all of that to predict movements of the masses, incoming firehose feeds from Twitter and Facebook... - highly effective tear gases, mobile walls on tanks to lock down streets [first photo of 1], tasers, rubber bullets, LRAD acoustic weapons and other non-deadly tools for crowd control It's hard to mount successful protest against nations that have half the stuff I just described, and as HK shows all but impossible against a nation that does have this kind of abilities. [1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/12/14/france-police-crowd-control-methods-maim-people https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/12/14/france-police-crowd-cont...
- bouncycastle 4y ago
  Yup, the other side of the coin is even darker. To add to the list - the recent trend to phase out cash in favor of electronic payments. Protesters can just have their accounts frozen, and/or deposits confiscated, as we seen in recent examples. (Those young kids who use their latest Apple watch to pay for coffee in the morning just because it's "convenient" really do not understand what they are sleepwalking into...)
pvaldes 4y ago
80's, a world without cameras in each street.

zwkrt 4y ago

People can protest without the Internet. However, they’re at a greater disadvantage than protesters in the 80s because the government does have the Internet.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

Back in the 80s, the number of people who had been and were killed organizing this way had a lot of zeroes at the end of it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for a low tech approach to security where it makes sense, but it’s not a panacea. And it’s not like this evolving movement wasn’t organizing the same way at the same time, we’ve learned more from them than the inverse.

LinuxBender 4y ago
we’ve learned more from them than the inverse Adding to this, their security forces learned a great deal as well. Here is a brief talk on this covering a little bit of the protest history and what is likely to occur. [1] [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooROZDeds8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooROZDeds8o [video 4 mins]

mschuster91 4y ago

> Back in the 80's, I remember that people were protesting without internet and mobile phones, with very successful results. Back then, the governments didn't have that either. Pigs on the streets with barely working (or understandable) radios, outdated huge paper maps, and if they were lucky a barely working chopper for a bit of aerial surveillance. The only tools were water cannons, batons, tear gas that didn't work against drunk people, shields and live ammo. These days, the abilities of governments in counter-protesting are absurd: - each pig has not just a radio with high quality audio transmission, but also a digital data channel for streaming video and other intel in both directions - tons of surveillance cameras with high definition imaging sensors - cheap-ass drones - there are multiple vendors offering "data fusion" for command centers. Think of platforms that fuse everything into one cohesive environment: a Google Maps map and satellite view, with individual position markers for each unit, live feeds from thousands of surveillance cameras, live feeds from officer body cameras, live feeds from drones and choppers, AI analyzing all of that to predict movements of the masses, incoming firehose feeds from Twitter and Facebook... - highly effective tear gases, mobile walls on tanks to lock down streets [first photo of 1], tasers, rubber bullets, LRAD acoustic weapons and other non-deadly tools for crowd control It's hard to mount successful protest against nations that have half the stuff I just described, and as HK shows all but impossible against a nation that does have this kind of abilities. [1] https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/12/14/france-police-crowd-control-methods-maim-people https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/12/14/france-police-crowd-cont...

bouncycastle 4y ago
Yup, the other side of the coin is even darker. To add to the list - the recent trend to phase out cash in favor of electronic payments. Protesters can just have their accounts frozen, and/or deposits confiscated, as we seen in recent examples. (Those young kids who use their latest Apple watch to pay for coffee in the morning just because it's "convenient" really do not understand what they are sleepwalking into...)

pvaldes 4y ago

80's, a world without cameras in each street.