4 ms·

While the explanation is relevant to this recent election, it doesn't apply to the earlier referendums which have all been denounced as illegitimate by Kyiv and

by wrp 4y ago

While the explanation is relevant to this recent election, it doesn't apply to the earlier referendums which have all been denounced as illegitimate by Kyiv and the West. The first (but not only) referendums for independence from Kyiv were in 1991 in Crimea and 2014 in Donbas.

geomark 4y ago
What were the voting results in those prior referendums?
- wrp 4y ago
  Politics in eastern Ukraine was messy even before the breakup of the USSR, and nobody was an objective observer, so take everything with a grain of salt. 20 January 1991: Crimea 93.6% to join Russia 16 March 2014: Crimea 96.77% for independence May 2014: Donetsk 89% for autonomy May 2014: Lugansk 96% for autonomy I pulled these numbers from a new book[1], which is in French, but there is already a rough English translation floating around. It is well footnoted with URLs. [1] https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYWFEAAAQBAJ https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYW...
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    > I pulled these numbers from a new book[1], which is in French, but there is already a rough English translation floating around. It is well footnoted with URLs. [1] https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYW https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYW... Jacques Baud who wrote that book which you used for the numbers has a history of pushing pro kremlin points and has been on Russian state TV in the past. I wouldn’t consider him reliable on this topic. If you want to read a good article on Jacques baud the following is a good analysis. https://dailysceptic.org/archive/how-accurate-is-jacques-bauds-analysis-of-the-war-in-ukraine/ https://dailysceptic.org/archive/how-accurate-is-jacques-bau...
    - wrp 4y ago
      Baud didn't invent those numbers I quoted. I could have cited a different book, but this was at hand. I'm well aware of Baud's writings and his military career. I do have issues with his intellectual honesty, but I think he is in no sense a mouthpiece of Moscow. His driving motivation seems to be not pro-Russia, but anti-USA, which is not so unusual for a Frenchman (Swiss). That article you linked is itself rather dishonest, raising issues and then sidestepping Baud's version of the story.
simplyaccont 4y ago
with regards to 1991 referendum in crimea, i pretty sure that according to local laws it was kind of unlawful. same applies to 2014 (in which you don't even know what was the turnout and people who were against were disappearing to be found dead later). you can kinda say that crimea 1991 referendum maybe had a chance on been kinda legal because it was autonomous republic inside Ukraine, but what happens in Donbas is similar to this https://ktla.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/nationworld/more-oregon-counties-vote-to-secede-and-become-part-of-greater-idaho/ https://ktla.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/nationworld/more-or... . You just need to add an armored company from Idaho taking over counties/sheriff department and then holding a votes to see absurdity of the situation

by wrp 4y ago

geomark 4y ago

What were the voting results in those prior referendums?

wrp 4y ago
Politics in eastern Ukraine was messy even before the breakup of the USSR, and nobody was an objective observer, so take everything with a grain of salt. 20 January 1991: Crimea 93.6% to join Russia 16 March 2014: Crimea 96.77% for independence May 2014: Donetsk 89% for autonomy May 2014: Lugansk 96% for autonomy I pulled these numbers from a new book[1], which is in French, but there is already a rough English translation floating around. It is well footnoted with URLs. [1] https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYWFEAAAQBAJ https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYW...
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > I pulled these numbers from a new book[1], which is in French, but there is already a rough English translation floating around. It is well footnoted with URLs. [1] https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYW https://books.google.com/books/about/Operation_Z.html?id=PYW... Jacques Baud who wrote that book which you used for the numbers has a history of pushing pro kremlin points and has been on Russian state TV in the past. I wouldn’t consider him reliable on this topic. If you want to read a good article on Jacques baud the following is a good analysis. https://dailysceptic.org/archive/how-accurate-is-jacques-bauds-analysis-of-the-war-in-ukraine/ https://dailysceptic.org/archive/how-accurate-is-jacques-bau...
  - wrp 4y ago
    Baud didn't invent those numbers I quoted. I could have cited a different book, but this was at hand. I'm well aware of Baud's writings and his military career. I do have issues with his intellectual honesty, but I think he is in no sense a mouthpiece of Moscow. His driving motivation seems to be not pro-Russia, but anti-USA, which is not so unusual for a Frenchman (Swiss). That article you linked is itself rather dishonest, raising issues and then sidestepping Baud's version of the story.

simplyaccont 4y ago

with regards to 1991 referendum in crimea, i pretty sure that according to local laws it was kind of unlawful. same applies to 2014 (in which you don't even know what was the turnout and people who were against were disappearing to be found dead later). you can kinda say that crimea 1991 referendum maybe had a chance on been kinda legal because it was autonomous republic inside Ukraine, but what happens in Donbas is similar to this https://ktla.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/nationworld/more-oregon-counties-vote-to-secede-and-become-part-of-greater-idaho/ https://ktla.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/nationworld/more-or... . You just need to add an armored company from Idaho taking over counties/sheriff department and then holding a votes to see absurdity of the situation