4 ms·

"Half of the russia thinks that they are at full fledge war with US, EU and rest of west." Are you sure about those numbers? It sounds a bit like a strawman ar

"Half of the russia thinks that they are at full fledge war with US, EU and rest of west." Are you sure about those numbers? It sounds a bit like a strawman argument to me.

NicoJuicy 4y ago
Don't underestimate propaganda in Africa, where Russia ( and China) have much more influence.
- srl 4y ago
  I don't understand the relevance of this. The claim is about what "half of Russia thinks". Why would propaganda in Africa have a strong effect on the thought of those in Russia?
  - NicoJuicy 4y ago
    It's not just halve of Russia who thinks that.
  - picsao 4y ago
PedroBatista 4y ago
As much as it looks, it isn't. Younger more educated people are more immune ( although equally passive and "stoic" ) but the vast majority believes what Kremlin says ( with varying degrees ). But it's not "magic", with 20+ years of constant propaganda in pretty much every TV channel every population would believe the same. Do not underestimate the sophistication and the level they can shape the minds of their people. The Internet was a new "challenge" but it's mostly under their control although not at the level they control TV and every newspaper. Also, the "story/reality" they spread in Africa, most Asia and South America is completely is completely different to the one they spread on the West. China does something similar. To my knowledge in the West their low effort blatant lies doesn't get much traction, but the way they feed the disenfranchised, contrarians and "influencers" fostering discontent has been effective. Don't know about TikTok.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  I have a hard time believing, people believe they are at full war with the NATO, yet at the same time are not allowed to call it war. There is only so much vodka you can drink.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    > not allowed to call it war For 8 years it wasn't called a war, so what?
    - miguelazo 4y ago
      Kind of like the US in every one of its wars for the last several decades? Since Congress is supposed to have the sole authority to declare war.
      - justsomehnguy 4y ago
        And that one too. It just always amuses me what the same people who cry about a war which isn't called a war completely ignore previous eight years when it was called a war everywhere... except officially it was ATO. Like, come on.
  - foverzar 4y ago
    Random people believe whatever they believe, it would be weird to assume that everyone has a consolidated perspective. Most people hardly understand the nuances between "war", "military operation" or "proxy war".
kofejnik 4y ago
yes, sounds about right
mcv 4y ago
It used to be that Russian media, as well as most Russians interviewed by foreign media, gave the impression that most Russians supported the war. Since the mobilisation, the hundreds of thousands of Russians trying to flee the country tell a very different and probably much more accurate story of how many people in Russia really support the war.
- foverzar 4y ago
  It tells us nothing, really. Hundreds of thousands is <1% It might only surprise people, who can't quite wrap their heads around the fact that other people are individuals with their own opinions, regardless of geography.
  - mcv 4y ago
    Hundreds of thousands is a lot. It's more than the number of Russian soldiers currently fighting in Ukraine. And there are the young men most likely to be drafted.
    - foverzar 4y ago
      It might feel a lot, but is still such a small fraction. Comparing it with Russian force in Ukraine is hardly a compliment to it's size, IMO. I just don't really understand why would one assume that such near-to-margin-of-error numbers could be indicative of anything other than an obvious fact that Russia isn't 100% homogenous (duh!).
- agapon 4y ago
  This is only a partially correct take. There is a huge difference between supporting a war from your couch and doing the same in the trenches. Most of those who run _now_ are running from the latter. They were quite comfortable in the former role.
aredox 4y ago
Ask any Ukrainians who have family in Russia... https://mobile.twitter.com/nastasiaKlimash/status/1575649514261618688 https://mobile.twitter.com/nastasiaKlimash/status/1575649514... (This is just one example across many I've seen since February)

"Half of the russia thinks that they are at full fledge war with US, EU and rest of west." Are you sure about those numbers? It sounds a bit like a strawman argument to me.

NicoJuicy 4y ago

Don't underestimate propaganda in Africa, where Russia ( and China) have much more influence.

srl 4y ago
I don't understand the relevance of this. The claim is about what "half of Russia thinks". Why would propaganda in Africa have a strong effect on the thought of those in Russia?
- NicoJuicy 4y ago
  It's not just halve of Russia who thinks that.
- picsao 4y ago

PedroBatista 4y ago

As much as it looks, it isn't. Younger more educated people are more immune ( although equally passive and "stoic" ) but the vast majority believes what Kremlin says ( with varying degrees ). But it's not "magic", with 20+ years of constant propaganda in pretty much every TV channel every population would believe the same. Do not underestimate the sophistication and the level they can shape the minds of their people. The Internet was a new "challenge" but it's mostly under their control although not at the level they control TV and every newspaper. Also, the "story/reality" they spread in Africa, most Asia and South America is completely is completely different to the one they spread on the West. China does something similar. To my knowledge in the West their low effort blatant lies doesn't get much traction, but the way they feed the disenfranchised, contrarians and "influencers" fostering discontent has been effective. Don't know about TikTok.

hutzlibu 4y ago
I have a hard time believing, people believe they are at full war with the NATO, yet at the same time are not allowed to call it war. There is only so much vodka you can drink.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  > not allowed to call it war For 8 years it wasn't called a war, so what?
  - miguelazo 4y ago
    Kind of like the US in every one of its wars for the last several decades? Since Congress is supposed to have the sole authority to declare war.
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      And that one too. It just always amuses me what the same people who cry about a war which isn't called a war completely ignore previous eight years when it was called a war everywhere... except officially it was ATO. Like, come on.
- foverzar 4y ago
  Random people believe whatever they believe, it would be weird to assume that everyone has a consolidated perspective. Most people hardly understand the nuances between "war", "military operation" or "proxy war".

kofejnik 4y ago

yes, sounds about right

mcv 4y ago

It used to be that Russian media, as well as most Russians interviewed by foreign media, gave the impression that most Russians supported the war. Since the mobilisation, the hundreds of thousands of Russians trying to flee the country tell a very different and probably much more accurate story of how many people in Russia really support the war.

foverzar 4y ago
It tells us nothing, really. Hundreds of thousands is <1% It might only surprise people, who can't quite wrap their heads around the fact that other people are individuals with their own opinions, regardless of geography.
- mcv 4y ago
  Hundreds of thousands is a lot. It's more than the number of Russian soldiers currently fighting in Ukraine. And there are the young men most likely to be drafted.
  - foverzar 4y ago
    It might feel a lot, but is still such a small fraction. Comparing it with Russian force in Ukraine is hardly a compliment to it's size, IMO. I just don't really understand why would one assume that such near-to-margin-of-error numbers could be indicative of anything other than an obvious fact that Russia isn't 100% homogenous (duh!).
agapon 4y ago
This is only a partially correct take. There is a huge difference between supporting a war from your couch and doing the same in the trenches. Most of those who run _now_ are running from the latter. They were quite comfortable in the former role.

aredox 4y ago

Ask any Ukrainians who have family in Russia... https://mobile.twitter.com/nastasiaKlimash/status/1575649514261618688 https://mobile.twitter.com/nastasiaKlimash/status/1575649514... (This is just one example across many I've seen since February)