6 ms·

CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

142 points by mgdiaz 15y ago

JonnieCache 15y ago
I certainly bloody hope not, just like I would presume that debian or centos don't contain rootkits either. Imagine if cyanogen had been putting cIQ in there? He'd be burned at the stake.
wmf 15y ago
Kicking them when they're down and fishing for compliments at the same time; impressive. Perhaps next we'll hear that CyanogenMod doesn't cause cancer.
- gougify 15y ago
  Couldn't agree more. Thanks CyanogenMod for this breaking press release...
- rimantas 15y ago
  You've just helped me to understand, why I had somewhat uneasy feeling about the project name: in my head cyanogen has connotations with carcinogen.
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    The name actually means "causes blueness", I guess.
- Klinky 15y ago
  Not sure how CyanogenMod commenting on a topical issue that affects their target audience deserves a hostile response. Also not sure when people started caring about the feelings of telcos that put spyware on your phone by default...
- msg 15y ago
  If it turned out that basically every other mainstream phone OS had just been discovered to cause cancer, yes, I would say the fact that CM doesn't and never will would be welcome news.
- jtchang 15y ago
  You don't get it do you? As an engineer I couldn't care less about their small post. I already knew about cyanogen. As a run of the mill consumer though this post couldn't be more poignant. Raising awareness of an alternative firmware? That is huge. This is how Linux got started. Blame marketing all you want but the more people who know about Cyanogen the better.
  - mikecarlucci 15y ago
    This. Cyanogen is still harder than jailbreaking an iOS device, but the gap is narrowing. As that edge reaches more casual users, who aren't just tech-heavy people, there's no reason Cyanogen couldn't be the Ubuntu of Android phones. It could have a large base of converts who want an alternative but don't want to have to spend all their time learning how to use their software in (for us techies) awesome ways.
kevin_jacobs 15y ago
Nice, but end users shouldn't have to root their phones and install a new OS just to not have all their data logged and reported on.
- thwarted 15y ago
  Not sure what you're calling out here. That end users have to root their phones in order to avoid something undesirable is not something that CyanogenMod can respond to. All the alternative firmware provides is a way to avoid something that is otherwise forced on you, and CyanogenMod is pointing out that it's offering that alternative.
  - mfringel 15y ago
    I'm going to guess that the parent is calling out one of the standard geek fallacies, that being "Well, I made/found/installed a workaround for my device, and everyone else could do it. Problem solved." It's a fallacy because not everyone has the technical skill to do it, and the amount of people who do have the technical skill are (I'm guessing, but I don't think I'm wrong) statistically insignificant next to the amount of people who don't. So, the overall problem isn't solved, and the people who have the technical wherewithal to actually speak out about it as technical experts are, by and large, sitting in a corner with CM7 and saying "All good over here."
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  Hopefully, the number of users of CM will rise enough to give the carriers "competition" and stop putting stuff like this and other bloatware in them. Because once a phone is rooted, they can also use apps like the ones for free tethering and so on. And I'm sure they don't like that at all.
- beloch 15y ago
  Users of any of the Nexus models don't, and for that I'm thankful. However, I hope Google takes this bad press seriously and does something more than merely distance themselves from third party cell manufacturers like HTC that have installed Carrier IQ on their phones. Google could provide an update that would remove or disable Carrier IQ. Something to tide users over until the next OS update is available to their phones. I find it unlikely that Carrier IQ will be around on any device after ICS is installed (too much bad press for HTC, etc.), but that may take some time or simply not even happen for some phones. One thing that is starting to become very clear is that there are more advantages to the Nexus line than just getting swift updates! Third party cell manufacturers may have unwittingly created a two-tier Android market, with their modified versions of the OS in the bottom tier.
ars 15y ago
The official android release (i.e. nexus phones) doesn't have Carrier IQ either.
bad_user 15y ago
CyanogenMod is the reason why I was comfortable buying an Android, as I don't trust these Android phone makers to release updates in a timely manner or to care about me as a customer.
- ck2 15y ago
  But how did you feel about all those strange programs you had to use to get root to install it? Because when I went through the process I was extremely nervous - even though most of the code is open source, how would you spot a backdoor if it was buried within a line? The ability to have root from the factory on a device you own should be a consumer's right in the states, just like getting your carrier unlock code.
  - bad_user 15y ago
    I feel the same as you - I consider CyanogenMod a useful escape hatch.
  - gbog 15y ago
    Can't agree more with "The ability to have root from the factory on a device you own should be a consumer's right in the states, just like getting your carrier unlock code." but please remove "in the states". When buying a computer, desktop or laptop, I would be extremely disappointed if I discover that I don't have the full ownership represented by "root access". When buying a car, don't we get the keys of the doors and a way to open the front cover where the engine lies? I don't understand why our expectations with mobile phones should be any different. People are letting go this ownership too easily. It worries me. I suspect there is some PR or FUD work behind the curtain. We are told that full ownership is dangerous and unnecessary. Like any power given to the owners, it may be dangerous, yes: I can fill my car's gas tank with sugar and break the engine if I wish to do so. But I think this Carriergate shows well enough that full ownership of devices that are so deeply rooted in our private lives is of the utmost necessity.
    - ck2 15y ago
      I added "in the states" because I assumed Canada/Europe/etc. had far more sane laws about this already, but I admit I am ignorant as to if this is actually true or not.
gst 15y ago
CyanogenMod is only part of the solution: It still requires a proprietary radio stack for each phone and there is plenty of backdoor stuff someone could put into the radio code.
- jrockway 15y ago
  Also! CPU microcode and "Reflections on Trusting Trust"!
zachinglis 15y ago
This post seems a bit too proud of itself. Love the first comment in the article though: "Here is a list of stuff that tracks you installed on the page talking about how cyanogen will never track you. Note you need not interact with any of these to be tracked. Just browse the page you're reading. Comscore Beacon Disqus Facebook Social Graph Google +1 button Google analytics Quantcast Twitter Button Not saying cyanogen is evil, or that these are unusual or unreasonable, or even missing the point about how carrier bloatware will inevitably lead to truly evil things like Carrier IQ. It's hard to get away from this kind of crap these days. The irony just struck me, that's all."
Kylekramer 15y ago
Of course they don't. But they do have CMStats (http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cmstats-what-it-is-and-why-you-should-opt-in http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cmstats-what-it-is-and-why-y...). While it is much better than Carrier IQ (less intrusive and prompts you to opt out on install), it still proves this info has value and even the most "fight the man", dogmatic open source project wants it.
- gospelwut 15y ago
  Standard Response: Fork it and remove it. [nobody has aptitude or inclination to maintain such a thing]
- cbs 15y ago
  it still proves this info has value "This info" is quite the weasel word. The set of data collected by cmstat, and what carrier's need spyware to obtain are mutually exclusive. Everything that CM stats collects would be available to carriers by looking at a combination of their sales, tower checkins, and firmware upgrades. After reading what data was included, I decided to opt-in my phone after previously opting-out by force of habit.
- bowyakka 15y ago
  I seem to remember you get to opt-in to this, I never agreed to carrier IQ.

142 points by mgdiaz 15y ago

I certainly bloody hope not, just like I would presume that debian or centos don't contain rootkits either. Imagine if cyanogen had been putting cIQ in there? He'd be burned at the stake.

wmf 15y ago

Kicking them when they're down and fishing for compliments at the same time; impressive. Perhaps next we'll hear that CyanogenMod doesn't cause cancer.

gougify 15y ago
Couldn't agree more. Thanks CyanogenMod for this breaking press release...
rimantas 15y ago
You've just helped me to understand, why I had somewhat uneasy feeling about the project name: in my head cyanogen has connotations with carcinogen.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  The name actually means "causes blueness", I guess.
Klinky 15y ago
Not sure how CyanogenMod commenting on a topical issue that affects their target audience deserves a hostile response. Also not sure when people started caring about the feelings of telcos that put spyware on your phone by default...
msg 15y ago
If it turned out that basically every other mainstream phone OS had just been discovered to cause cancer, yes, I would say the fact that CM doesn't and never will would be welcome news.
jtchang 15y ago
You don't get it do you? As an engineer I couldn't care less about their small post. I already knew about cyanogen. As a run of the mill consumer though this post couldn't be more poignant. Raising awareness of an alternative firmware? That is huge. This is how Linux got started. Blame marketing all you want but the more people who know about Cyanogen the better.
- mikecarlucci 15y ago
  This. Cyanogen is still harder than jailbreaking an iOS device, but the gap is narrowing. As that edge reaches more casual users, who aren't just tech-heavy people, there's no reason Cyanogen couldn't be the Ubuntu of Android phones. It could have a large base of converts who want an alternative but don't want to have to spend all their time learning how to use their software in (for us techies) awesome ways.

kevin_jacobs 15y ago

Nice, but end users shouldn't have to root their phones and install a new OS just to not have all their data logged and reported on.

thwarted 15y ago
Not sure what you're calling out here. That end users have to root their phones in order to avoid something undesirable is not something that CyanogenMod can respond to. All the alternative firmware provides is a way to avoid something that is otherwise forced on you, and CyanogenMod is pointing out that it's offering that alternative.
- mfringel 15y ago
  I'm going to guess that the parent is calling out one of the standard geek fallacies, that being "Well, I made/found/installed a workaround for my device, and everyone else could do it. Problem solved." It's a fallacy because not everyone has the technical skill to do it, and the amount of people who do have the technical skill are (I'm guessing, but I don't think I'm wrong) statistically insignificant next to the amount of people who don't. So, the overall problem isn't solved, and the people who have the technical wherewithal to actually speak out about it as technical experts are, by and large, sitting in a corner with CM7 and saying "All good over here."
nextparadigms 15y ago
Hopefully, the number of users of CM will rise enough to give the carriers "competition" and stop putting stuff like this and other bloatware in them. Because once a phone is rooted, they can also use apps like the ones for free tethering and so on. And I'm sure they don't like that at all.
beloch 15y ago
Users of any of the Nexus models don't, and for that I'm thankful. However, I hope Google takes this bad press seriously and does something more than merely distance themselves from third party cell manufacturers like HTC that have installed Carrier IQ on their phones. Google could provide an update that would remove or disable Carrier IQ. Something to tide users over until the next OS update is available to their phones. I find it unlikely that Carrier IQ will be around on any device after ICS is installed (too much bad press for HTC, etc.), but that may take some time or simply not even happen for some phones. One thing that is starting to become very clear is that there are more advantages to the Nexus line than just getting swift updates! Third party cell manufacturers may have unwittingly created a two-tier Android market, with their modified versions of the OS in the bottom tier.

ars 15y ago

The official android release (i.e. nexus phones) doesn't have Carrier IQ either.

bad_user 15y ago

CyanogenMod is the reason why I was comfortable buying an Android, as I don't trust these Android phone makers to release updates in a timely manner or to care about me as a customer.

ck2 15y ago
But how did you feel about all those strange programs you had to use to get root to install it? Because when I went through the process I was extremely nervous - even though most of the code is open source, how would you spot a backdoor if it was buried within a line? The ability to have root from the factory on a device you own should be a consumer's right in the states, just like getting your carrier unlock code.
- bad_user 15y ago
  I feel the same as you - I consider CyanogenMod a useful escape hatch.
- gbog 15y ago
  Can't agree more with "The ability to have root from the factory on a device you own should be a consumer's right in the states, just like getting your carrier unlock code." but please remove "in the states". When buying a computer, desktop or laptop, I would be extremely disappointed if I discover that I don't have the full ownership represented by "root access". When buying a car, don't we get the keys of the doors and a way to open the front cover where the engine lies? I don't understand why our expectations with mobile phones should be any different. People are letting go this ownership too easily. It worries me. I suspect there is some PR or FUD work behind the curtain. We are told that full ownership is dangerous and unnecessary. Like any power given to the owners, it may be dangerous, yes: I can fill my car's gas tank with sugar and break the engine if I wish to do so. But I think this Carriergate shows well enough that full ownership of devices that are so deeply rooted in our private lives is of the utmost necessity.
  - ck2 15y ago
    I added "in the states" because I assumed Canada/Europe/etc. had far more sane laws about this already, but I admit I am ignorant as to if this is actually true or not.

gst 15y ago

CyanogenMod is only part of the solution: It still requires a proprietary radio stack for each phone and there is plenty of backdoor stuff someone could put into the radio code.

jrockway 15y ago
Also! CPU microcode and "Reflections on Trusting Trust"!

zachinglis 15y ago

This post seems a bit too proud of itself. Love the first comment in the article though: "Here is a list of stuff that tracks you installed on the page talking about how cyanogen will never track you. Note you need not interact with any of these to be tracked. Just browse the page you're reading. Comscore Beacon Disqus Facebook Social Graph Google +1 button Google analytics Quantcast Twitter Button Not saying cyanogen is evil, or that these are unusual or unreasonable, or even missing the point about how carrier bloatware will inevitably lead to truly evil things like Carrier IQ. It's hard to get away from this kind of crap these days. The irony just struck me, that's all."

Kylekramer 15y ago

Of course they don't. But they do have CMStats (http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cmstats-what-it-is-and-why-you-should-opt-in http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cmstats-what-it-is-and-why-y...). While it is much better than Carrier IQ (less intrusive and prompts you to opt out on install), it still proves this info has value and even the most "fight the man", dogmatic open source project wants it.

gospelwut 15y ago
Standard Response: Fork it and remove it. [nobody has aptitude or inclination to maintain such a thing]
cbs 15y ago
it still proves this info has value "This info" is quite the weasel word. The set of data collected by cmstat, and what carrier's need spyware to obtain are mutually exclusive. Everything that CM stats collects would be available to carriers by looking at a combination of their sales, tower checkins, and firmware upgrades. After reading what data was included, I decided to opt-in my phone after previously opting-out by force of habit.
bowyakka 15y ago
I seem to remember you get to opt-in to this, I never agreed to carrier IQ.