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Implement a carbon tax, and it will happen. The insistence from some that we can just innovate our way out of the climate crisis, when the Industrial Revolution

Implement a carbon tax, and it will happen. The insistence from some that we can just innovate our way out of the climate crisis, when the Industrial Revolution and pursuit of technological expansion for the sake of profit at all costs is what got us into this situation in the first place, is what I find truly “quixotic.” There is no incentive for corporations to improve the climate situation in a meaningful way.

seper8 4y ago
Agree 100%. Tax generation of CO2 at the energy level and all else should follow. Then allow companies to get a tax reduction if they offset their output in some well researched and supported method. Tadaa...
- polski-g 4y ago
  If you tax generate of CO2 and "all else follows", what "would follow" is that the party that instituted said tax would be voted out and it would be repealed.
- hedora 4y ago
  A dollar a gallon direct air capture carbon tax would make gasoline net carbon negative. Clearly, that would lead to mass hysteria and societal collapse. /s
  - shakezula 4y ago
    You got a source for this? I believe it’s probably roughly true but I haven’t read those figures and would absolutely love to see more.
    - hedora 4y ago
      Computed it myself. Direct air carbon startups are advertising $50-$200/ton at scale. A ton is 2000 pounds. A gallon of gasoline emits 20lbs of co2 when burnt (most of the weight is in the o2, so the emissions are heavier than the gasoline). Divide the per ton prices by 100 to convert to per gallon of gas, and you get $0.50-$2.00. The existence of the tax would ensure they all had enough revenue to scale; fund them all initially, then let economics pick the winner.
timst4 4y ago
I agree full-heartedly as a dutiful member of Citizens Climate Lobby. However, if we can’t pass this legislation with a Democratic political stack in place, then when?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Look at how ignored political groups have traditionally made their voices heard. Like racial equality movements, unions, or womens' suffrage.
  - nyokodo 4y ago
    None of those movements required any degradation of the living standards of the majority of people but at most just the elites or a particular class and then not substantially. Climate is a very different fight.
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      There are countless ways to improve living conditions while reducing emissions. Free sustainable transport would stop the least privileged from having to fork over a third of their paycheck to auto and fossil fuel companies while freeing up billions spent on roads. Making landlords accountable for energy wasting housing design would reduce energy bills. Not invading countries for their gas and mineral reserves is pretty good for the people that live there. A direct carbon tarriff distributed evenly by population would lift living standards for the underprivileged and give them the resources to make a choice for lower emissions options. Right to repair, accountability for forced obsolescence or design faults and consumer rights decrease waste and benefit the poor immensely.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    And statistically the Justice system still gives minorities harsher sentences for the same crime and are targeted more and union participation is down. Well I guess one out of three isn’t bad.
Gibbon1 4y ago
My thinking about carbon taxes is they will just result in political blowback and a lot of the push comes from entities with an interest in the status quo.. Bill gates is right, trying to impoverish people in the developed world would both result in blowback and be a disaster if implemented. I think there is an 80/20 rule with consumption in developed countries. 20% consume 80% of the resources. Getting the 20% to reduce consumption is a won't fix politically. Yet degrowth people think somehow the 80% can reduce their consumption and not go under. Look at the amount of reduction in consumption that triggers a recession, it's 10X less than the shock degrowth people are demanding. The complicating factor is the upper classes are completely resistant to any sort collective action that benefits lower class people. And they are hellbent to make sure no one ever gets to see a successful example.
Proven 4y ago
[dead]
xupybd 4y ago
I don't see that working globally. It will be near impossible for it not to get distorted by political influence into something that does little to achieve the goals of reducing carbon emissions. I truly believe our only hope is to innovate our way out of this.
abigail95 4y ago
carbon tax is less popular than 4 degree climate change can't do it in a democracy

seper8 4y ago

Agree 100%. Tax generation of CO2 at the energy level and all else should follow. Then allow companies to get a tax reduction if they offset their output in some well researched and supported method. Tadaa...

polski-g 4y ago
If you tax generate of CO2 and "all else follows", what "would follow" is that the party that instituted said tax would be voted out and it would be repealed.
hedora 4y ago
A dollar a gallon direct air capture carbon tax would make gasoline net carbon negative. Clearly, that would lead to mass hysteria and societal collapse. /s
- shakezula 4y ago
  You got a source for this? I believe it’s probably roughly true but I haven’t read those figures and would absolutely love to see more.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Computed it myself. Direct air carbon startups are advertising $50-$200/ton at scale. A ton is 2000 pounds. A gallon of gasoline emits 20lbs of co2 when burnt (most of the weight is in the o2, so the emissions are heavier than the gasoline). Divide the per ton prices by 100 to convert to per gallon of gas, and you get $0.50-$2.00. The existence of the tax would ensure they all had enough revenue to scale; fund them all initially, then let economics pick the winner.

timst4 4y ago

I agree full-heartedly as a dutiful member of Citizens Climate Lobby. However, if we can’t pass this legislation with a Democratic political stack in place, then when?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Schroedingersat 4y ago
Look at how ignored political groups have traditionally made their voices heard. Like racial equality movements, unions, or womens' suffrage.
- nyokodo 4y ago
  None of those movements required any degradation of the living standards of the majority of people but at most just the elites or a particular class and then not substantially. Climate is a very different fight.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    There are countless ways to improve living conditions while reducing emissions. Free sustainable transport would stop the least privileged from having to fork over a third of their paycheck to auto and fossil fuel companies while freeing up billions spent on roads. Making landlords accountable for energy wasting housing design would reduce energy bills. Not invading countries for their gas and mineral reserves is pretty good for the people that live there. A direct carbon tarriff distributed evenly by population would lift living standards for the underprivileged and give them the resources to make a choice for lower emissions options. Right to repair, accountability for forced obsolescence or design faults and consumer rights decrease waste and benefit the poor immensely.
- scarface74 4y ago
  And statistically the Justice system still gives minorities harsher sentences for the same crime and are targeted more and union participation is down. Well I guess one out of three isn’t bad.

Gibbon1 4y ago

My thinking about carbon taxes is they will just result in political blowback and a lot of the push comes from entities with an interest in the status quo.. Bill gates is right, trying to impoverish people in the developed world would both result in blowback and be a disaster if implemented. I think there is an 80/20 rule with consumption in developed countries. 20% consume 80% of the resources. Getting the 20% to reduce consumption is a won't fix politically. Yet degrowth people think somehow the 80% can reduce their consumption and not go under. Look at the amount of reduction in consumption that triggers a recession, it's 10X less than the shock degrowth people are demanding. The complicating factor is the upper classes are completely resistant to any sort collective action that benefits lower class people. And they are hellbent to make sure no one ever gets to see a successful example.

Proven 4y ago

[dead]

xupybd 4y ago

I don't see that working globally. It will be near impossible for it not to get distorted by political influence into something that does little to achieve the goals of reducing carbon emissions. I truly believe our only hope is to innovate our way out of this.

abigail95 4y ago

carbon tax is less popular than 4 degree climate change can't do it in a democracy