7 ms·

To be fair, Microsoft had that problem long before Google had it, with different parts of the org going their own way, there's even that famous image comparing

by koyote 4y ago

To be fair, Microsoft had that problem long before Google had it, with different parts of the org going their own way, there's even that famous image comparing org structures (https://i.insider.com/4e0b340dcadcbbdd35120000?width=750&format=jpeg&auto=webp https://i.insider.com/4e0b340dcadcbbdd35120000?width=750&for...). I remember back in the days you could have three or so different image viewers created by Microsoft installed on your machine (Office had its own for example). Then there was MSN Messenger, Windows Messenger, Skype, Skype for business, Lync. That being said, I think Google far surpassed Microsoft in creating things that get shut down and have been for the last decade at least while Microsoft has improved on that front.

pb7 4y ago
What things has Microsoft tried that have been outside of their four or so verticals that have been around for ages (Windows, Office, Cloud, Gaming)? Google alone has nearly 1:1 mappings: Android/Chrome OS, Workspace (Docs, Gmail, Calendar, etc), Cloud, YouTube Gaming and Stadia just died), on top of all the other products with >1B users like Drive, Photos, Play Store, etc. Microsoft even failed with Windows Mobile whereas Google has the Pixel line.
- yyyk 4y ago
  Microsoft's Gaming and Cloud 'verticals' have not 'been around for ages' (or maybe I'm just older). They're a relatively new* creation of Microsoft which actually do well. Now, we could say Gaming is as old as Google, so that's a wash. But Google should never have been so far behind in Cloud. It should be their native arena! It's a huge loss, I suspect thanks to internal politics. * Gorillas.BAS and Microsoft Flight Simulator aside. ** There's the Dynamics line, which I don't think really counts under 'office' given its complexity.
  - pb7 4y ago
    Xbox launched in 2001. I would call that "ages" personally. Cloud is newer I agree. >But Google should have never been so far behind in Cloud. I emphatically agree. Google had kick ass infrastructure way before most players and squandered it on internal use only. I think it's one of the biggest blunders in its history and shows the lack of vision in places.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      As a standard disclaimer: I work at AWS in Professional Services. What I’m not going to do is criticize GCP. First it would be gouache to criticize a competitor and second I’ve never had any interaction with GCP as a user either personally or professionally. I have had experience with both AWS and Microsoft both from an implementation/hands on keyboard developer and from a more strategic business standpoint as a dev lead (Microsoft) and cloud architect (AWS) sitting in a room with CxOs dealing with vendor relationships working at startups. That being said, despite the old wives tale that AWS came about because Amazon decided to sell its excess capacity, AWS was started as a separate initiative with completely different infrastructure when Amazon wanted to enter a separate vertical. It was led by Jassy (not technically from a business development standpoint) - a sales guy who looked at the market and went after a need (I refuse to say by “Working Backwards”). Every initiative that Amazon and AWS has starts with the business case, six pagers, PRFAQ’s etc with product managers and program managers involved. I even had to do a couple to get “funding” to spend time on a couple of features to a popular company sponsored open source solution I wanted to work on. Being successful in the cloud is all about building relationships, knowing how to meet large organizations where they are, not being stuck on “the one true way”, developing and grooming a network of “partners”, etc. It’s very high touch. Microsoft has been doing that since the 80s and AWS had first mover advantage. I won’t speak to GCP in particular. But none of the above characteristics is part of Google’s DNA.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Microsoft went from “Windows Everywhere” and selling boxed software to cloud, cross platform development, Office365 subscriptions and Office working everywhere, embracing open source to the point where even SQL Server runs on Linux, Azure and gaming, Pixel - Google sold less than 1 million Pixels last quarter https://www.androidpolice.com/google-selling-more-pixels-2022-than-2021-north-america/ https://www.androidpolice.com/google-selling-more-pixels-202... Apple sells more phones than that in 2 days. https://www.statista.com/statistics/299153/apple-smartphone-shipments-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/299153/apple-smartphone-... Android is not really all that profitable and Google still ends up paying Apple $18 billion+ a year to actually reach mobile consumers with money to spend. The $26 Billion in profit number was over 6 years https://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelhelft/2016/01/21/oracle-says-google-made-31-billion-in-revenue-from-android-what-does-it-mean/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelhelft/2016/01/21/oracle-s... Cloud - GCP isn’t profitable https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252523200/Google-results-show-bigger-GCP-operating-loss https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252523200/Google-results... As far as GSuite, it’s not getting much uptake in the enterprise https://www.saasgenius.com/blog/why-office-365-is-overtaking-google-apps-market-share/ https://www.saasgenius.com/blog/why-office-365-is-overtaking...
  - pb7 4y ago
    I don't dispute that but this particular conversation was about who creates more and who shutters more and I don't think Microsoft is a good counterexample to Google. It has created some things, it has shuttered some things, but mostly things have stayed the same, same as Google. Apple is probably the one that has created the most lasting things and continues to release new lines of products and services. Nearly everything that has launched has had lasting iterations (except the original HomePod which is a tragedy).
    - scarface74 4y ago
      You can say a lot about Microsoft. But no one has ever accused MS of abandoning anything quickly and not supporting its platforms forever - even Zune. But my comments have basically been around Google not having strong focus and not successfully and profitably entering new markets.
- koyote 4y ago
  That was sort of my point. Microsoft _used_ to throw a lot more stuff at the wall and see what sticks (I am talking about 10-20 years ago). These days it seems like the effort is much more concentrated with buy-in from the whole organisation (VS Code, .net core, WSL, Azure) and users can therefore put more trust in the company to continue investing into an endeavour. (obviously there are still exceptions to this, I have lost count on the number of desktop UI frameworks Microsoft has developed in the last 15 years...)
  - scarface74 4y ago
    And they are still all supported…

by koyote 4y ago

pb7 4y ago

What things has Microsoft tried that have been outside of their four or so verticals that have been around for ages (Windows, Office, Cloud, Gaming)? Google alone has nearly 1:1 mappings: Android/Chrome OS, Workspace (Docs, Gmail, Calendar, etc), Cloud, YouTube Gaming and Stadia just died), on top of all the other products with >1B users like Drive, Photos, Play Store, etc. Microsoft even failed with Windows Mobile whereas Google has the Pixel line.

yyyk 4y ago
Microsoft's Gaming and Cloud 'verticals' have not 'been around for ages' (or maybe I'm just older). They're a relatively new* creation of Microsoft which actually do well. Now, we could say Gaming is as old as Google, so that's a wash. But Google should never have been so far behind in Cloud. It should be their native arena! It's a huge loss, I suspect thanks to internal politics. * Gorillas.BAS and Microsoft Flight Simulator aside. ** There's the Dynamics line, which I don't think really counts under 'office' given its complexity.
- pb7 4y ago
  Xbox launched in 2001. I would call that "ages" personally. Cloud is newer I agree. >But Google should have never been so far behind in Cloud. I emphatically agree. Google had kick ass infrastructure way before most players and squandered it on internal use only. I think it's one of the biggest blunders in its history and shows the lack of vision in places.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    As a standard disclaimer: I work at AWS in Professional Services. What I’m not going to do is criticize GCP. First it would be gouache to criticize a competitor and second I’ve never had any interaction with GCP as a user either personally or professionally. I have had experience with both AWS and Microsoft both from an implementation/hands on keyboard developer and from a more strategic business standpoint as a dev lead (Microsoft) and cloud architect (AWS) sitting in a room with CxOs dealing with vendor relationships working at startups. That being said, despite the old wives tale that AWS came about because Amazon decided to sell its excess capacity, AWS was started as a separate initiative with completely different infrastructure when Amazon wanted to enter a separate vertical. It was led by Jassy (not technically from a business development standpoint) - a sales guy who looked at the market and went after a need (I refuse to say by “Working Backwards”). Every initiative that Amazon and AWS has starts with the business case, six pagers, PRFAQ’s etc with product managers and program managers involved. I even had to do a couple to get “funding” to spend time on a couple of features to a popular company sponsored open source solution I wanted to work on. Being successful in the cloud is all about building relationships, knowing how to meet large organizations where they are, not being stuck on “the one true way”, developing and grooming a network of “partners”, etc. It’s very high touch. Microsoft has been doing that since the 80s and AWS had first mover advantage. I won’t speak to GCP in particular. But none of the above characteristics is part of Google’s DNA.
scarface74 4y ago
Microsoft went from “Windows Everywhere” and selling boxed software to cloud, cross platform development, Office365 subscriptions and Office working everywhere, embracing open source to the point where even SQL Server runs on Linux, Azure and gaming, Pixel - Google sold less than 1 million Pixels last quarter https://www.androidpolice.com/google-selling-more-pixels-2022-than-2021-north-america/ https://www.androidpolice.com/google-selling-more-pixels-202... Apple sells more phones than that in 2 days. https://www.statista.com/statistics/299153/apple-smartphone-shipments-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/299153/apple-smartphone-... Android is not really all that profitable and Google still ends up paying Apple $18 billion+ a year to actually reach mobile consumers with money to spend. The $26 Billion in profit number was over 6 years https://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelhelft/2016/01/21/oracle-says-google-made-31-billion-in-revenue-from-android-what-does-it-mean/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/miguelhelft/2016/01/21/oracle-s... Cloud - GCP isn’t profitable https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252523200/Google-results-show-bigger-GCP-operating-loss https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252523200/Google-results... As far as GSuite, it’s not getting much uptake in the enterprise https://www.saasgenius.com/blog/why-office-365-is-overtaking-google-apps-market-share/ https://www.saasgenius.com/blog/why-office-365-is-overtaking...
- pb7 4y ago
  I don't dispute that but this particular conversation was about who creates more and who shutters more and I don't think Microsoft is a good counterexample to Google. It has created some things, it has shuttered some things, but mostly things have stayed the same, same as Google. Apple is probably the one that has created the most lasting things and continues to release new lines of products and services. Nearly everything that has launched has had lasting iterations (except the original HomePod which is a tragedy).
  - scarface74 4y ago
    You can say a lot about Microsoft. But no one has ever accused MS of abandoning anything quickly and not supporting its platforms forever - even Zune. But my comments have basically been around Google not having strong focus and not successfully and profitably entering new markets.
koyote 4y ago
That was sort of my point. Microsoft _used_ to throw a lot more stuff at the wall and see what sticks (I am talking about 10-20 years ago). These days it seems like the effort is much more concentrated with buy-in from the whole organisation (VS Code, .net core, WSL, Azure) and users can therefore put more trust in the company to continue investing into an endeavour. (obviously there are still exceptions to this, I have lost count on the number of desktop UI frameworks Microsoft has developed in the last 15 years...)
- scarface74 4y ago
  And they are still all supported…