5 ms·

NFTs would not help. Like. At all. Otoh digital copies for download would

by miniBill 4y ago

kinakomochidayo 4y ago
NFTs would replace DRM, so it would, in order to actually play the game.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  How does one replace DRM with NFTs if the game is locally loaded?
  - kinakomochidayo 4y ago
    Have an interface that interacts with MetaMask or WalletConnect within the game.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      What I mean is: the point of DRM is to regulate play of the game whether a person has rights to run the software to play it. How do NFTs help if I have the binaries on my machine and can just patch the check for NFTs to always return "Yes this user is authorized?"
      - kinakomochidayo 4y ago
        You can patch the check with binaries? Wouldn’t you need to modify the source and build? I’m not familiar enough with tampering, cracking software like that so I can’t really say.
        shadowgovt 4y ago
        No problem. So in general: yes, it's not always trivial to crack a locally-hosted binary but it's generally possible. It can often be done by actually modifying the binary itself (it's just machine code; if, for example, the entire check is evaluated by one "Call out to the server to find out if we're authorized" function that returns a boolean, you can just replace the first few bytes in its machine code with "LDA $FF # true ; RETURN" and the function will think you're always registered. If it's more complicated, you could maybe run a proxy server locally that pretends to be the check server and always returns "authorized" for the query. Assuming everyone's playing by the rules, I can see how an NFT could be used to indicate when someone has an ownership license to play a game (but not the mechanics of how that right would be enforced were someone to patch their local copy to just ignore the rights check). If the game is cloud-hosted, this is easier to enforce.
        kinakomochidayo 4y ago
        Ooh very interesting, thanks for explaining! From reading others replies too, it does looks like client-only mechanism on its own is weak compared to having checks on both the client and server..
        Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
        Patching out these checks has existed for literally decades. Even in the 90's (And possibly 80's and before), this was common. Games distributed on floppies would have a check that involved asking you what the 13th word of page 4 of the manual was, or would have some sort of decoder wheel. And it wasn't hard to find cracked versions that had those checks patched out. When games started coming on CDs, there were copy protection tricks that could detect if the game was running from an ISO image (via Daemon Tools or something) or even a copied disc, and those were all patched out. GameCopyWorld was a very popular website in the early '00s. It served up these cracked versions of games. How it still exists is beyond me, tbh.
  - ElevenLathe 4y ago
    It couldn't replace the DRM, just the license check. Some DRM spyware from the publisher will still have to check if you can prove ownership via the blockchain instead of checking a CD key against the publisher's license server. If you can't, it will refuse to launch the game. Someone will crack the game and provide a DRM-free experience that is better.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      I struggle to see how the NFT provides any value in this setup.
      - ElevenLathe 4y ago
        It doesn't, except that I guess the publisher doesn't have to run a license server. IMO this would be better achieved by simply not having a license check, at least on some terminal version after which no updates will go out.
- jabroni_salad 4y ago
  Alright so the stadia games are computed in a remote datacenter, right? Let's assume that what you proposed is good and useful and I have an NFT in my wallet that entitles me access to a game in stadia's platform How does the NFT help me now that the compute resource has been unplugged? I have the entitlement but not the delivery.
  - kinakomochidayo 4y ago
    It wouldn’t work for a native streaming service like Stadia, but I could definitely see it working for Single Player games where all the content is stored in the executable, where there isn’t reliance on centralized servers for content. Maybe download the game from IPFS or Arweave, or as another have said, developers making it available on torrents For multiplayer games, you’d need servers for match making and such, so it’s probably not possible right now.
    - billllll 4y ago
      Unless you're putting the entire executable on the Blockchain (gigs and gigs of data), then you still need servers to host the game. I don't see how hosting the entire game is feasible, since games can be hundreds of gigs. Day one patches would also be infeasible if you store the whole game on the Blockchain. Note that most NFTs are links to a central server hosted on a Blockchain, not the actual image itself.
      - kinakomochidayo 4y ago
        Developers can still make the executables available on other centralized servers, decentralized solutions like BitTorrent, etc. The NFT wallet check could happen internally within the game, perhaps some kind of WebView allowing access to browser wallet extensions.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

NFTs would not help. Like. At all. Otoh digital copies for download would

kinakomochidayo 4y ago

NFTs would replace DRM, so it would, in order to actually play the game.

shadowgovt 4y ago
How does one replace DRM with NFTs if the game is locally loaded?
- kinakomochidayo 4y ago
  Have an interface that interacts with MetaMask or WalletConnect within the game.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    What I mean is: the point of DRM is to regulate play of the game whether a person has rights to run the software to play it. How do NFTs help if I have the binaries on my machine and can just patch the check for NFTs to always return "Yes this user is authorized?"
    - kinakomochidayo 4y ago
      You can patch the check with binaries? Wouldn’t you need to modify the source and build? I’m not familiar enough with tampering, cracking software like that so I can’t really say.
      - shadowgovt 4y ago
        No problem. So in general: yes, it's not always trivial to crack a locally-hosted binary but it's generally possible. It can often be done by actually modifying the binary itself (it's just machine code; if, for example, the entire check is evaluated by one "Call out to the server to find out if we're authorized" function that returns a boolean, you can just replace the first few bytes in its machine code with "LDA $FF # true ; RETURN" and the function will think you're always registered. If it's more complicated, you could maybe run a proxy server locally that pretends to be the check server and always returns "authorized" for the query. Assuming everyone's playing by the rules, I can see how an NFT could be used to indicate when someone has an ownership license to play a game (but not the mechanics of how that right would be enforced were someone to patch their local copy to just ignore the rights check). If the game is cloud-hosted, this is easier to enforce.
        kinakomochidayo 4y ago
        Ooh very interesting, thanks for explaining! From reading others replies too, it does looks like client-only mechanism on its own is weak compared to having checks on both the client and server..
      - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
        Patching out these checks has existed for literally decades. Even in the 90's (And possibly 80's and before), this was common. Games distributed on floppies would have a check that involved asking you what the 13th word of page 4 of the manual was, or would have some sort of decoder wheel. And it wasn't hard to find cracked versions that had those checks patched out. When games started coming on CDs, there were copy protection tricks that could detect if the game was running from an ISO image (via Daemon Tools or something) or even a copied disc, and those were all patched out. GameCopyWorld was a very popular website in the early '00s. It served up these cracked versions of games. How it still exists is beyond me, tbh.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  It couldn't replace the DRM, just the license check. Some DRM spyware from the publisher will still have to check if you can prove ownership via the blockchain instead of checking a CD key against the publisher's license server. If you can't, it will refuse to launch the game. Someone will crack the game and provide a DRM-free experience that is better.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I struggle to see how the NFT provides any value in this setup.
    - ElevenLathe 4y ago
      It doesn't, except that I guess the publisher doesn't have to run a license server. IMO this would be better achieved by simply not having a license check, at least on some terminal version after which no updates will go out.
jabroni_salad 4y ago
Alright so the stadia games are computed in a remote datacenter, right? Let's assume that what you proposed is good and useful and I have an NFT in my wallet that entitles me access to a game in stadia's platform How does the NFT help me now that the compute resource has been unplugged? I have the entitlement but not the delivery.
- kinakomochidayo 4y ago
  It wouldn’t work for a native streaming service like Stadia, but I could definitely see it working for Single Player games where all the content is stored in the executable, where there isn’t reliance on centralized servers for content. Maybe download the game from IPFS or Arweave, or as another have said, developers making it available on torrents For multiplayer games, you’d need servers for match making and such, so it’s probably not possible right now.
  - billllll 4y ago
    Unless you're putting the entire executable on the Blockchain (gigs and gigs of data), then you still need servers to host the game. I don't see how hosting the entire game is feasible, since games can be hundreds of gigs. Day one patches would also be infeasible if you store the whole game on the Blockchain. Note that most NFTs are links to a central server hosted on a Blockchain, not the actual image itself.
    - kinakomochidayo 4y ago
      Developers can still make the executables available on other centralized servers, decentralized solutions like BitTorrent, etc. The NFT wallet check could happen internally within the game, perhaps some kind of WebView allowing access to browser wallet extensions.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]