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> do to deserve the fruits of their labor This is the issue. No one needs to do anything to deserve access to food, shelter, clothing, etc. I think you're fra

> do to deserve the fruits of their labor This is the issue. No one needs to do anything to deserve access to food, shelter, clothing, etc. I think you're framing it something like lazy people vs. people who work hard, which I don't think we need to do. If we ever lived in world where we could all access unlimited food, shelter, etc. then do you think people would still have to do stuff to actually "earn" access to it? Why or why not? The issue I had in my original comment was that the OP suggested merely _wanting_ to live in that world, where we are all handed the ingredients for a happy life at 0 cost, is childish. I can't fathom thinking that someone wanting to live a happy life without needing to toil is _childish_

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
It is childish to want to fly to America from Europe in 1700 and get upset that it is not possible. That is what I meant: "want" as a present demand, as seen in some dictionaries.[1] I should have been more clear about this as it seems to have become the point of contention. But see my later point about the carying capacity for why this is an unreasonable future want as well. [1]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/want https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/want
flerchin 4y ago
They do need to do something though. Why would the farmer work harder than he has to feed his own family? He can produce just enough food for himself and relax. Why would the people building houses build an extra one? We do not live in a world with unlimited food and shelter.
- sweetheart 4y ago
  Yeah I know, I wasn’t saying we do live in that world. I’m continuing to say that _wanting_ to live in that world isn’t childish. Wanting to live in a world where we are all handed food, medicine, shelter, etc. for free seems like something we should all obviously be in favor of achieving eventually. Instead, there seem to be some people who view this ideal as childish, as if even if there are enough resources for everyone, one ought to have to work to earn access to those resources, which just seems cruel and domineering.
  - flerchin 4y ago
    The premise that there can be free food and housing, without people having had to work to provide them, is fantasy. Wanting to live in a fantasy is not unreasonably childish, but it is childish.

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago

It is childish to want to fly to America from Europe in 1700 and get upset that it is not possible. That is what I meant: "want" as a present demand, as seen in some dictionaries.[1] I should have been more clear about this as it seems to have become the point of contention. But see my later point about the carying capacity for why this is an unreasonable future want as well. [1]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/want https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/want

flerchin 4y ago

They do need to do something though. Why would the farmer work harder than he has to feed his own family? He can produce just enough food for himself and relax. Why would the people building houses build an extra one? We do not live in a world with unlimited food and shelter.

sweetheart 4y ago
Yeah I know, I wasn’t saying we do live in that world. I’m continuing to say that _wanting_ to live in that world isn’t childish. Wanting to live in a world where we are all handed food, medicine, shelter, etc. for free seems like something we should all obviously be in favor of achieving eventually. Instead, there seem to be some people who view this ideal as childish, as if even if there are enough resources for everyone, one ought to have to work to earn access to those resources, which just seems cruel and domineering.
- flerchin 4y ago
  The premise that there can be free food and housing, without people having had to work to provide them, is fantasy. Wanting to live in a fantasy is not unreasonably childish, but it is childish.