4 ms·

Serverless? Huh I can't get onboard with that one.

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
Serverless is great for scenarios where you don't want to have to worry about scaling. AWS S3 was probably the first "serverless" technology to really take off. You don't have to worry about how many hosts you need to adequately handle sharing a file with millions of people. You don't need to start up multiple hosts in order to get backups in multiple data centers and then handle synchronization. Nope, just put a file there, and everything else is handled. AWS Lambda and other FaaS providers made it so you don't have to configure scaling hosts to handle sudden large loads. It's also great for things that only need a couple minutes of CPU time per month, like say, periodically processing some data in batches. You don't have to deal with standing up a host that runs a cron job and then paying for CPU time you're not using. Serverless databases mean you don't have to worry about patching the underlying operating system. Of course, serverless has its limitations. FaaS is not suitable for long-running tasks, for example. It also tends to result in vendor lock-in. EDIT: If you're going to fire back with "AlL tHoSe ThInGs ArE sTiLl RuNnInG oN sErVeRs", don't waste your time. It's a tired argument that misses the point. Yes, they run on servers, but you don't have to care about the underlying servers.
- hbrn 4y ago
  Infinitely scaling webservers is trivial. Serverless solves a problem that is already easy to solve. Infinitely scaling database means inevitable tradeoffs. Serverless doesn't take those tradeoffs away. It doesn't do anything to justify the hype. You get complexity, worse DX, vendor lock-in and often higher price for the sake of not having to do security updates. This is the worst deal in the history of deals, maybe ever.
  - eagsalazar2 4y ago
    Your entire last sentence, except the higher price bit, is just completely utterly false on its face. Serverless is magically simple - and that is DX, magically simple and easy to reason about. Vendor lockin?? Wat? Again utterly wrong and false. The whole point is you are running your code, you define the function bodies, they just get deployed to different serverless hosting services and it is insanely simplifying. Switching from AWS to Netlify to Vercel is not harder than switching under any other approach. About cost, even though that isn't "completely utterly false" it is misleading. If you are a startup and want to move as fast as possible without incurring tons of tech debt, and don't yet have millions of daily users, you should use serverless functions because the total cost will be relatively small (relative to the insanely high cost of good devs that is -- always optimize for DX and velocity until you actually have scale). If you ever get to the point where serverless is costing you real $$, then refactor then - you've incurred almost no tech debt by waiting and being very very fast prior to that may just be the reason you got to that scale at all. Go ahead and build a serverless app utilizing a framework that is well aligned with that approach (may I recommend Remix?) and I bet you'll change your tune. My gut tells me you have no firsthand experience because your points are absolutely off base.
    - hbrn 4y ago
      You're still not addressing my points. What is the big problem that serverless solves? What does it promise and what does it actually deliver? Infinite scalability? It only solves the easiest part of it. Cost reduction? As you seem to admit, generally this is only true at small scale. Security updates? Fair enough, but this has never been the real problem. If you're at a point where security updates are that important you will unlikely leave them in the hands of a third party. My bet is that what you're attributing to the benefits of serverless are not inherent to the serverless itself and are just benefits of infrastructure built around it.
      - Existenceblinks 4y ago
        Yeah, somehow "scale" + no server? ("serverless") combined catches VC fishes. I was exited about edge compute but it's been hijacked by these js engine hype that run function on serverless. It becomes indistinguishable between a concept of "compute close to user" and this serverless + js engine thingy. I wouldn't be surprised if large portion of serverless market is javascript. And rust driven wasm. So monoculture right now.

Serverless is great for scenarios where you don't want to have to worry about scaling. AWS S3 was probably the first "serverless" technology to really take off. You don't have to worry about how many hosts you need to adequately handle sharing a file with millions of people. You don't need to start up multiple hosts in order to get backups in multiple data centers and then handle synchronization. Nope, just put a file there, and everything else is handled. AWS Lambda and other FaaS providers made it so you don't have to configure scaling hosts to handle sudden large loads. It's also great for things that only need a couple minutes of CPU time per month, like say, periodically processing some data in batches. You don't have to deal with standing up a host that runs a cron job and then paying for CPU time you're not using. Serverless databases mean you don't have to worry about patching the underlying operating system. Of course, serverless has its limitations. FaaS is not suitable for long-running tasks, for example. It also tends to result in vendor lock-in. EDIT: If you're going to fire back with "AlL tHoSe ThInGs ArE sTiLl RuNnInG oN sErVeRs", don't waste your time. It's a tired argument that misses the point. Yes, they run on servers, but you don't have to care about the underlying servers.

hbrn 4y ago
Infinitely scaling webservers is trivial. Serverless solves a problem that is already easy to solve. Infinitely scaling database means inevitable tradeoffs. Serverless doesn't take those tradeoffs away. It doesn't do anything to justify the hype. You get complexity, worse DX, vendor lock-in and often higher price for the sake of not having to do security updates. This is the worst deal in the history of deals, maybe ever.
- eagsalazar2 4y ago
  Your entire last sentence, except the higher price bit, is just completely utterly false on its face. Serverless is magically simple - and that is DX, magically simple and easy to reason about. Vendor lockin?? Wat? Again utterly wrong and false. The whole point is you are running your code, you define the function bodies, they just get deployed to different serverless hosting services and it is insanely simplifying. Switching from AWS to Netlify to Vercel is not harder than switching under any other approach. About cost, even though that isn't "completely utterly false" it is misleading. If you are a startup and want to move as fast as possible without incurring tons of tech debt, and don't yet have millions of daily users, you should use serverless functions because the total cost will be relatively small (relative to the insanely high cost of good devs that is -- always optimize for DX and velocity until you actually have scale). If you ever get to the point where serverless is costing you real $$, then refactor then - you've incurred almost no tech debt by waiting and being very very fast prior to that may just be the reason you got to that scale at all. Go ahead and build a serverless app utilizing a framework that is well aligned with that approach (may I recommend Remix?) and I bet you'll change your tune. My gut tells me you have no firsthand experience because your points are absolutely off base.
  - hbrn 4y ago
    You're still not addressing my points. What is the big problem that serverless solves? What does it promise and what does it actually deliver? Infinite scalability? It only solves the easiest part of it. Cost reduction? As you seem to admit, generally this is only true at small scale. Security updates? Fair enough, but this has never been the real problem. If you're at a point where security updates are that important you will unlikely leave them in the hands of a third party. My bet is that what you're attributing to the benefits of serverless are not inherent to the serverless itself and are just benefits of infrastructure built around it.
    - Existenceblinks 4y ago
      Yeah, somehow "scale" + no server? ("serverless") combined catches VC fishes. I was exited about edge compute but it's been hijacked by these js engine hype that run function on serverless. It becomes indistinguishable between a concept of "compute close to user" and this serverless + js engine thingy. I wouldn't be surprised if large portion of serverless market is javascript. And rust driven wasm. So monoculture right now.