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Clojure goes out of its way to be insular. Creating a PR upstream requires you to have been given access explicitly from Rich Hickey (or whoever admins their Gi

Clojure goes out of its way to be insular. Creating a PR upstream requires you to have been given access explicitly from Rich Hickey (or whoever admins their Gitlab instance). The Clojurians slack is invite-only. etc.

carnundotcom 4y ago
I can't speak to developing the language, but Clojurians (a very welcoming and helpful community!) is definitely not invite-only. Linked here alongside other resources: https://clojure.org/community/resources https://clojure.org/community/resources Oh, and there's a #clojure-dev channel.
- ironmagma 4y ago
  My bad, I must have just not been using Slack right.
sgt 4y ago
You think Java of C# (originally) is any better?
- ironmagma 4y ago
  Is Java supposed to be the best or the worst here? comparing oneself to the worst is not a good look… I’d rather Clojure have a nice open tracker system you can submit issues/PRs to instantly (without preapproval) like most Github/Gitea-hosted OSS projects do.
  - sgt 4y ago
    It's an open source project, the benefit of being a bit closed down is that you can then focus on coding instead of scrolling through issues/PR all day. Who wants to do that?
    - ironmagma 4y ago
      Open source was invented to make the barrier to contribution easier. Putting up a barrier is therefore counterproductive. By your logic, just force everyone to fork their own copy if they want to make changes, so no one has to scroll through PRs/issues. And they wonder why no one has solved the curse of lisp?
seancorfield 4y ago
Sigh. Let's address this persistent misinformation. There are many ways to contribute to Clojure and its ecosystem: https://clojure.org/community/contributing https://clojure.org/community/contributing -- and a PR or patch is often the smallest, simplest part of the process because there is a lot of other work involved in making any change while maintaining stability and performance. Clojure core and Contrib libraries use Jira for collaboration (and GitHub for hosting source code). Anyone can post to https://ask.clojure.org https://ask.clojure.org (maintained by the Clojure core team) with suggestions about changes, enhancements, bugs, or even just general questions. The core team and the various Contrib library maintainers are quick to create Jira issues from posts there. Once all the groundwork has been done on an issue and it is ready for a potential patch, you can get a Jira account approved (if you're a first-time contributor) and you can attach a patch to a ticket there. See https://clojure.org/dev/dev https://clojure.org/dev/dev for information about the development process which emphasizes the groundwork necessary for a change to be considered. Many hundreds of people have gone through this process: https://clojure.org/dev/contributors https://clojure.org/dev/contributors Anyone can sign up for the Clojurians Slack at http://clojurians.net http://clojurians.net -- Slack itself forces the "invite" machinery on us but that self-signup link is well-publicized and, like many OSS community Slacks, is maintained by a team of volunteer moderators. Clojurians is on a Pro plan so it has full history/searching available, sponsored by Slack itself (much appreciated by the thousands of Clojurians!). Disclaimer: I've been a contributor for about a decade. I've contributed to Clojure itself (a small patch for one release) and I maintain five of the Contrib libraries, which all use Jira and patches as their workflow.
joeevans1000 4y ago
The Clojurians slack is... invite only? Not now, not ever. There's some kind of slack boilerplate sign up thing but it's the same as all Slack channels.
synthc 4y ago
This is just not true at all. Everyone can join the Clojurians slack, it is a very welcoming place, also to newcomers, in my experience. Everyone can create issues and patches, getting them accepted may take a long time, but the core team does a great job of maintaining high quality and not breaking things.

carnundotcom 4y ago

I can't speak to developing the language, but Clojurians (a very welcoming and helpful community!) is definitely not invite-only. Linked here alongside other resources: https://clojure.org/community/resources https://clojure.org/community/resources Oh, and there's a #clojure-dev channel.

ironmagma 4y ago
My bad, I must have just not been using Slack right.

sgt 4y ago

You think Java of C# (originally) is any better?

ironmagma 4y ago
Is Java supposed to be the best or the worst here? comparing oneself to the worst is not a good look… I’d rather Clojure have a nice open tracker system you can submit issues/PRs to instantly (without preapproval) like most Github/Gitea-hosted OSS projects do.
- sgt 4y ago
  It's an open source project, the benefit of being a bit closed down is that you can then focus on coding instead of scrolling through issues/PR all day. Who wants to do that?
  - ironmagma 4y ago
    Open source was invented to make the barrier to contribution easier. Putting up a barrier is therefore counterproductive. By your logic, just force everyone to fork their own copy if they want to make changes, so no one has to scroll through PRs/issues. And they wonder why no one has solved the curse of lisp?

seancorfield 4y ago

Sigh. Let's address this persistent misinformation. There are many ways to contribute to Clojure and its ecosystem: https://clojure.org/community/contributing https://clojure.org/community/contributing -- and a PR or patch is often the smallest, simplest part of the process because there is a lot of other work involved in making any change while maintaining stability and performance. Clojure core and Contrib libraries use Jira for collaboration (and GitHub for hosting source code). Anyone can post to https://ask.clojure.org https://ask.clojure.org (maintained by the Clojure core team) with suggestions about changes, enhancements, bugs, or even just general questions. The core team and the various Contrib library maintainers are quick to create Jira issues from posts there. Once all the groundwork has been done on an issue and it is ready for a potential patch, you can get a Jira account approved (if you're a first-time contributor) and you can attach a patch to a ticket there. See https://clojure.org/dev/dev https://clojure.org/dev/dev for information about the development process which emphasizes the groundwork necessary for a change to be considered. Many hundreds of people have gone through this process: https://clojure.org/dev/contributors https://clojure.org/dev/contributors Anyone can sign up for the Clojurians Slack at http://clojurians.net http://clojurians.net -- Slack itself forces the "invite" machinery on us but that self-signup link is well-publicized and, like many OSS community Slacks, is maintained by a team of volunteer moderators. Clojurians is on a Pro plan so it has full history/searching available, sponsored by Slack itself (much appreciated by the thousands of Clojurians!). Disclaimer: I've been a contributor for about a decade. I've contributed to Clojure itself (a small patch for one release) and I maintain five of the Contrib libraries, which all use Jira and patches as their workflow.

joeevans1000 4y ago

The Clojurians slack is... invite only? Not now, not ever. There's some kind of slack boilerplate sign up thing but it's the same as all Slack channels.

synthc 4y ago

This is just not true at all. Everyone can join the Clojurians slack, it is a very welcoming place, also to newcomers, in my experience. Everyone can create issues and patches, getting them accepted may take a long time, but the core team does a great job of maintaining high quality and not breaking things.