6 ms·

Deno 1.26 Release Notes

113 points by exists 4y ago

yencabulator 4y ago
I was curious about what all shares the same web cache, exactly -- basically, can a random script poison a cache something like `deno_install` might use -- and didn't find that clearly documented. The answer is here: https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/716005a0d4afd1042fa75d8bdc32fd13e9ebe95f/cli/args/mod.rs#L183-L205 https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/716005a0d4afd1042fa75d... So - value of `deno run --location=` - value of `deno run --config=`, also automatic probing - path to main script file, or for `deno eval`, current directory
k__ 4y ago
Half-OT: Anyone got experience with switching from Node.js to Deno? What's better with Deno? What's still worse?
- lucasyvas 4y ago
  Ecosystem is still worse, which is IMO all that matters at this point. ts-node is good enough to stick to Node for now if you want TypeScript. I don't think the rest of Deno is that compelling, although I would probably switch to Deno once its Node compat is awesome since it is a more compelete package out of the box than Node is. Deno's battle is that it is an incremental improvement, and competing JS runtimes is quickly become the new JS web framework meme alternative (Bun, Boa, Node, Deno)
  - k__ 4y ago
    "it is a more compelete package out of the box than Node" How come?
    - lucasyvas 4y ago
      Deno fmt, testing, capabilities, standalone binaries, built-in TS. Just a bit more modern and nice and saves a lot of setup you'd have to do with Node.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    I think esbuild is simpler than ts-node. We simply compile everything from TS to JS with esbuild every time we launch node (it takes less than 0.1 seconds)
    - lucasyvas 4y ago
      It very well could be - I suppose that's more evidence to the point that working with Node is very doable these days even without built-in support for many tools.
    - toastercat 4y ago
      See: https://github.com/lukeed/tsm https://github.com/lukeed/tsm which is built on esbuild.
      - nicoburns 4y ago
        Ah that looks cool. I'll definitely check that out at some point. Although our current node <-> esbuild integration is a ~6 line bash script, so there's not much pressure to change to another solution.
  - mirekrusin 4y ago
    #! /usr/bin/env node -r @swc-node/register ...shebang is better than ts-node
  - Rapzid 4y ago
    ts-node is great. Proper ESM support landed over the summer. All my new projects at work are module type now. I use ts-node with the optional SWC compiler which works great with pretty darn fast startup times. SWC can handle TypeScript experimental decorators including emitting metadata, so not losing out on anything with it ATM.
    - labarilem 4y ago
      +1 for the SWC compiler, been using it for some time and I love it.
  - simlevesque 4y ago
    > Ecosystem is still worse, which is IMO all that matters at this point. Matters for what ? Doing every type of app ? Yeah, that's blocker. But it doesn't really matter. Every language ecosystem that succeeds starts off lacking things. Personally I prefer starting with it early and be part of that ecosystem.
  - Serenacula 4y ago
    I still have nightmarish configuration problems when using ts-node. Deno has definitely made that easier for my personal projects at least.
- themerone 4y ago
  I haven't switched yet, but I would say everything is better except package availability. For example, there is no package to connect to an SQL Server database. Node/NPM compatibility is experimental, as it improves, this lack of Deno native packages should become less of an issue.
  - mirekrusin 4y ago
    When they say npm compatiblity, they mean non-native npms - native npms will never be supported.
    - dsherret 4y ago
      Node API will be supported sometime soon https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/13633 https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/13633
      - mirekrusin 4y ago
        Thanks, I stand corrected, one ambitious pr!
- frou_dh 4y ago
  Deno is very nice for writing a script that uses a dependency, without the ceremony of setting up or generating a pseudo-"project". One file with your code in it.
- toastercat 4y ago
  Worse: Ecosystem Better: Seamless TypeScript support without having to deal with 3rd party packages or tsconfigs. A standard library modeled after Go's that is a WIP, but solid overall. Having browser APIs in the runtime is great, removes the mental context switch between browser/node. Formatter built in to the binary. YMMV, but I prefer the url imports and lack of package.json. I can't speak from a professional standpoint of migrating a project from Node to Deno; honestly, I don't think it's worth doing that (yet). But Deno is far more enjoyable to me as a hobbyist programmer and working on solo projects. I recently deployed an app backend using just the std and the Deno port of postgres.js[0] to Deno Deploy and it was a breeze. I also think it's a great starting point for anyone looking to learn JavaScript. [0] https://github.com/porsager/postgres https://github.com/porsager/postgres
- lucis 4y ago
  Deno Deploy[1] is amazing, the deploy time is unbelievably fast. I'm doing regular HTTP stuff, so haven't been suffering with lack of libraries. Most things work just fine. https://deno.com/deploy https://deno.com/deploy
- akmittal 4y ago
  Whats better: 1. Standard library: Deno has so much better standard library, support for web standards, promises instead of callback, and need to reach out to third party modules lot less 2. Performance: Deno is focusing a lot on performance and it faster than node 3. Package management: No more gigabytes of node_modules, They just have URLs which are simpler to use 4. Versioned std library:node's standard library is packaged but for deno you can use different std library than deno version. Whats worse: 1. Ecosystem: There are lot less packages for deno but Deno team is working on npm packages support. So all/most npm packages will work in deno 2. Deployment target: Deno has deno deploy but that pretty much it.
- nyadesu 4y ago
  > What's better with Deno? Scripting, tooling/IDE support (webstorm support is pretty good), documentation and standardization, infrastructure as code > What's still worse? Node/NPM compatibility is still hit or miss depending on the library you're trying to use, that's something Bun is trying to improve over Deno. Also, typescript types feel very hacky and I feel that's something very important as one of Deno's biggest selling points is typescript first-class support, definitely typed is doing most of the heavy lifting but things aren't perfect.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Everything is better except the amount of packages available for it.
losvedir 4y ago
Deno is pretty neat. I really want it to succeed. I really like TypeScript, and Deno almost gives me what I want: pretending TypeScript is a full-fledged language, with a standard library, that I can build non-frontend apps with. Let's just sweep all that JS-heritage and V8 stuff under the rug... I've been playing with deno lately, and like it, but have been getting tripped up by some things. I wish the standard library weren't at URLs like all the other packages. It would be great if the `deno` tool you downloaded also included the standard library, and you could just reference it without any network stuff. The documentation is also pretty cryptic (and I think autogenerated?). The package management stuff I haven't quite wrapped my head around. Obviously, you shouldn't be downloading stuff willy-nilly, but I think with some combination of the conventional deps.ts, import_map, specifying a lock file, the vendor command, --no-remote, etc, I feel like I have all the pieces to kind of build up a reasonable approach, but I don't quite understand it all just yet. Personally, the `--allow-read`, `--allow-net`, etc stuff feels a little gimmicky to me. I don't think other languages really have that, and I'm not sure what the threat model is here. I control the backend code, and if I'm worried about my code doing unexpected things like that I have larger issues. I just run with `-A` all the time.
- VikingCoder 4y ago
  To the last point - imagine that you're using some library code, and you do an update, and now it starts trying to talk to some back-end server. That might be a good thing to stop. Also, I'm looking forward to the idea of running a host like Deno, with applications inside that other people wrote. Kind of like sandstorm.io. I may be naive, but I'm hoping this happens really, really soon.
  - eis 4y ago
    The problem is that you grant the privileges on the application level and not library level. You grant network access to your app and then some updated dependency suddenly starts communicating home and it wont prevent that. It is also possible in Deno to set permissions for Workers but that's not just plug and play for existing libraries.
VikingCoder 4y ago
The other day, Workerd was featured, and here's Deno. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? When would one be better than the other? Or am I wrong, and they're not competing as much as they seem?
- atonse 4y ago
  They all have Function-as-a-service offerings and have pledged to work together on a common standard/compatibility layer so your code can port easily.
edave64 4y ago
Using bar graphs just showing the factor of improvement is kinda baffling. It took me a bit to understand how to read it, which is the last thing you want in a diagram. Just show before and after bars...
wener 4y ago
Deno looks good, but don't support musl, I'm not the target audience.

113 points by exists 4y ago

I was curious about what all shares the same web cache, exactly -- basically, can a random script poison a cache something like `deno_install` might use -- and didn't find that clearly documented. The answer is here: https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/716005a0d4afd1042fa75d8bdc32fd13e9ebe95f/cli/args/mod.rs#L183-L205 https://github.com/denoland/deno/blob/716005a0d4afd1042fa75d... So - value of `deno run --location=` - value of `deno run --config=`, also automatic probing - path to main script file, or for `deno eval`, current directory

k__ 4y ago

Half-OT: Anyone got experience with switching from Node.js to Deno? What's better with Deno? What's still worse?

lucasyvas 4y ago
Ecosystem is still worse, which is IMO all that matters at this point. ts-node is good enough to stick to Node for now if you want TypeScript. I don't think the rest of Deno is that compelling, although I would probably switch to Deno once its Node compat is awesome since it is a more compelete package out of the box than Node is. Deno's battle is that it is an incremental improvement, and competing JS runtimes is quickly become the new JS web framework meme alternative (Bun, Boa, Node, Deno)
- k__ 4y ago
  "it is a more compelete package out of the box than Node" How come?
  - lucasyvas 4y ago
    Deno fmt, testing, capabilities, standalone binaries, built-in TS. Just a bit more modern and nice and saves a lot of setup you'd have to do with Node.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  I think esbuild is simpler than ts-node. We simply compile everything from TS to JS with esbuild every time we launch node (it takes less than 0.1 seconds)
  - lucasyvas 4y ago
    It very well could be - I suppose that's more evidence to the point that working with Node is very doable these days even without built-in support for many tools.
  - toastercat 4y ago
    See: https://github.com/lukeed/tsm https://github.com/lukeed/tsm which is built on esbuild.
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      Ah that looks cool. I'll definitely check that out at some point. Although our current node <-> esbuild integration is a ~6 line bash script, so there's not much pressure to change to another solution.
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  #! /usr/bin/env node -r @swc-node/register ...shebang is better than ts-node
- Rapzid 4y ago
  ts-node is great. Proper ESM support landed over the summer. All my new projects at work are module type now. I use ts-node with the optional SWC compiler which works great with pretty darn fast startup times. SWC can handle TypeScript experimental decorators including emitting metadata, so not losing out on anything with it ATM.
  - labarilem 4y ago
    +1 for the SWC compiler, been using it for some time and I love it.
- simlevesque 4y ago
  > Ecosystem is still worse, which is IMO all that matters at this point. Matters for what ? Doing every type of app ? Yeah, that's blocker. But it doesn't really matter. Every language ecosystem that succeeds starts off lacking things. Personally I prefer starting with it early and be part of that ecosystem.
- Serenacula 4y ago
  I still have nightmarish configuration problems when using ts-node. Deno has definitely made that easier for my personal projects at least.
themerone 4y ago
I haven't switched yet, but I would say everything is better except package availability. For example, there is no package to connect to an SQL Server database. Node/NPM compatibility is experimental, as it improves, this lack of Deno native packages should become less of an issue.
- mirekrusin 4y ago
  When they say npm compatiblity, they mean non-native npms - native npms will never be supported.
  - dsherret 4y ago
    Node API will be supported sometime soon https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/13633 https://github.com/denoland/deno/pull/13633
    - mirekrusin 4y ago
      Thanks, I stand corrected, one ambitious pr!
frou_dh 4y ago
Deno is very nice for writing a script that uses a dependency, without the ceremony of setting up or generating a pseudo-"project". One file with your code in it.
toastercat 4y ago
Worse: Ecosystem Better: Seamless TypeScript support without having to deal with 3rd party packages or tsconfigs. A standard library modeled after Go's that is a WIP, but solid overall. Having browser APIs in the runtime is great, removes the mental context switch between browser/node. Formatter built in to the binary. YMMV, but I prefer the url imports and lack of package.json. I can't speak from a professional standpoint of migrating a project from Node to Deno; honestly, I don't think it's worth doing that (yet). But Deno is far more enjoyable to me as a hobbyist programmer and working on solo projects. I recently deployed an app backend using just the std and the Deno port of postgres.js[0] to Deno Deploy and it was a breeze. I also think it's a great starting point for anyone looking to learn JavaScript. [0] https://github.com/porsager/postgres https://github.com/porsager/postgres
lucis 4y ago
Deno Deploy[1] is amazing, the deploy time is unbelievably fast. I'm doing regular HTTP stuff, so haven't been suffering with lack of libraries. Most things work just fine. https://deno.com/deploy https://deno.com/deploy
akmittal 4y ago
Whats better: 1. Standard library: Deno has so much better standard library, support for web standards, promises instead of callback, and need to reach out to third party modules lot less 2. Performance: Deno is focusing a lot on performance and it faster than node 3. Package management: No more gigabytes of node_modules, They just have URLs which are simpler to use 4. Versioned std library:node's standard library is packaged but for deno you can use different std library than deno version. Whats worse: 1. Ecosystem: There are lot less packages for deno but Deno team is working on npm packages support. So all/most npm packages will work in deno 2. Deployment target: Deno has deno deploy but that pretty much it.
nyadesu 4y ago
> What's better with Deno? Scripting, tooling/IDE support (webstorm support is pretty good), documentation and standardization, infrastructure as code > What's still worse? Node/NPM compatibility is still hit or miss depending on the library you're trying to use, that's something Bun is trying to improve over Deno. Also, typescript types feel very hacky and I feel that's something very important as one of Deno's biggest selling points is typescript first-class support, definitely typed is doing most of the heavy lifting but things aren't perfect.
Mikeb85 4y ago
Everything is better except the amount of packages available for it.

losvedir 4y ago

Deno is pretty neat. I really want it to succeed. I really like TypeScript, and Deno almost gives me what I want: pretending TypeScript is a full-fledged language, with a standard library, that I can build non-frontend apps with. Let's just sweep all that JS-heritage and V8 stuff under the rug... I've been playing with deno lately, and like it, but have been getting tripped up by some things. I wish the standard library weren't at URLs like all the other packages. It would be great if the `deno` tool you downloaded also included the standard library, and you could just reference it without any network stuff. The documentation is also pretty cryptic (and I think autogenerated?). The package management stuff I haven't quite wrapped my head around. Obviously, you shouldn't be downloading stuff willy-nilly, but I think with some combination of the conventional deps.ts, import_map, specifying a lock file, the vendor command, --no-remote, etc, I feel like I have all the pieces to kind of build up a reasonable approach, but I don't quite understand it all just yet. Personally, the `--allow-read`, `--allow-net`, etc stuff feels a little gimmicky to me. I don't think other languages really have that, and I'm not sure what the threat model is here. I control the backend code, and if I'm worried about my code doing unexpected things like that I have larger issues. I just run with `-A` all the time.

VikingCoder 4y ago
To the last point - imagine that you're using some library code, and you do an update, and now it starts trying to talk to some back-end server. That might be a good thing to stop. Also, I'm looking forward to the idea of running a host like Deno, with applications inside that other people wrote. Kind of like sandstorm.io. I may be naive, but I'm hoping this happens really, really soon.
- eis 4y ago
  The problem is that you grant the privileges on the application level and not library level. You grant network access to your app and then some updated dependency suddenly starts communicating home and it wont prevent that. It is also possible in Deno to set permissions for Workers but that's not just plug and play for existing libraries.

VikingCoder 4y ago

The other day, Workerd was featured, and here's Deno. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? When would one be better than the other? Or am I wrong, and they're not competing as much as they seem?

atonse 4y ago
They all have Function-as-a-service offerings and have pledged to work together on a common standard/compatibility layer so your code can port easily.

edave64 4y ago

Using bar graphs just showing the factor of improvement is kinda baffling. It took me a bit to understand how to read it, which is the last thing you want in a diagram. Just show before and after bars...

wener 4y ago

Deno looks good, but don't support musl, I'm not the target audience.