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Yup, the regulations in place with todays technology create some interesting incentives. If you work at a bank: * all phone calls & voicemails are recorded 7+ y

Yup, the regulations in place with todays technology create some interesting incentives. If you work at a bank: * all phone calls & voicemails are recorded 7+ years (if you've worked at one long enough you know the distinct background noise/beep the recorded lines make) * all emails are kept 7+ years * all chat logs (slack/teams/etc) are saved 7+ years Emails & chats are easier to NLP/search/flag. Drop an f-bomb, or use a word like "scam" in chat casually ("that f-bomb dinner last night was a rip-off, what a scam!") is 100% going to get auto-flagged and reviewed by compliance and/or your boss. Saying that verbally on the phone is not, because the tech isn't there to transcribe and auto-flag calls. Recorded calls are more kept in evidence to produce in the event of an investigation triggered by something else. So a lot of senior people end up nudging conversations to the phone. They don't plan to do any crimes, and they certainly don't plan to get caught. The next level is that for a lot of senior people, they operate almost entirely in the in-person verbal realm. There are no rules requiring any recording or record keeping of verbal discussions/meetings/etc, and implementing them would be hard if there were. This is why in big cases, its always some low level guy or middle manager who goes down for the "crime", because they are the most senior person involved in the activity to actually commit any of it to writing. 1000% his boss, and his bosses boss were aware / in on it / even ordering the activity to happen.. they just never put that down anywhere.. Examples of this are the LIBOR "London Whale" scandal, some of the "rogue traders" like at SocGen, "Fabulous Fab", and many more. I bet at most banks once you hit the MD level, the vast majority of outgoing emails you would see going out are simple one-word "yes/no/approved" or variations of "lets discuss offline / call me / lets meet about this". And 0.0% of them use any chat apps at work. WhatsApp is a thorny issue because most places stopped giving out work devices but make you download all the work apps. You develop personal friendships with coworkers and feel that out-of-hours non-work chat should happen in places like WhatsApp. Sometimes innocently out of laziness, some people end up commingling a bit. A minority of cases you'll have guys actually using private apps to evade monitoring. No one wants their personal messaging off their personal devices being recorded by their workplace. Maybe the right outcome here is mandatory personal & work device segregation, companies issue "work phones" and thats the end of it.

pxx 4y ago
Hobbyhorse: Verbal communication is communication in words, which also includes written communication. You mean oral or in-person communications.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Thanks. To clarify, this dude also used non-verbal comms like throwing his phone at people in meetings & slamming doors as he walked out.
shapefrog 4y ago
> use a word like "scam" in chat casually is 100% going to get auto-flagged and reviewed by compliance and/or your boss "Congratulations" on typed chat, phone call to boss within 3 minutes, and required a written report to senior senior management. There was unironic suggestions of doctors notes when the reason for the congratulations was their wife had just had their first kid. > places stopped giving out work devices but make you download all the work apps Havent come across this before, work issued device only, all calls and messages were recorded and preserved for 7 years. Installing any chat apps on the phone; sackable offence. Giving your personal phone number in any business context; sackable offence. Making a work related call from anything other than your mobile phone / recorded office line; sackable offence. > they operate almost entirely in the in-person verbal realm Inevitable really - and if you wanted any actual response from management, stick your head in their office and ask. If it goes tits up, you are on your own though as inevitably they "dont recall" that conversation. I can highly reccomend - The Lowball Tapes - The secret tapes the authorities, on both sides of the Atlantic, wouldn’t want you to hear, that could upend the official version of the biggest scandal since the financial crash. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0014x77 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0014x77
- steveBK123 4y ago
  > Giving your personal phone number in any business context In US it's become the norm to not issue work device hardware anymore sadly. Some people didn't like carrying 2 devices, and firms like saving $$ so win-win. Nonetheless, I got a few compliance pings when WFH and giving my phone # over work chat to someone to call me. > Inevitable really - and if you wanted any actual response from management, stick your head in their office and ask. If it goes tits up, you are on your own though as inevitably they "dont recall" that conversation. Precisely. I worked for a guy who had a particularly egregiously offensive boss. The big boss would claim to not have read emails, saying "you have to talk to me, you can't just send me an email, how do you know I've read it?" but then when they did things verbally, the guy would be like "I don't recall that conversation, you need to email me". Basically lol nothing matters. Dude got himself a C-suite gig at a competitor, but made sure to fire my boss on his way out because he was a small spiteful man.

pxx 4y ago

Hobbyhorse: Verbal communication is communication in words, which also includes written communication. You mean oral or in-person communications.

steveBK123 4y ago
Thanks. To clarify, this dude also used non-verbal comms like throwing his phone at people in meetings & slamming doors as he walked out.

shapefrog 4y ago

> use a word like "scam" in chat casually is 100% going to get auto-flagged and reviewed by compliance and/or your boss "Congratulations" on typed chat, phone call to boss within 3 minutes, and required a written report to senior senior management. There was unironic suggestions of doctors notes when the reason for the congratulations was their wife had just had their first kid. > places stopped giving out work devices but make you download all the work apps Havent come across this before, work issued device only, all calls and messages were recorded and preserved for 7 years. Installing any chat apps on the phone; sackable offence. Giving your personal phone number in any business context; sackable offence. Making a work related call from anything other than your mobile phone / recorded office line; sackable offence. > they operate almost entirely in the in-person verbal realm Inevitable really - and if you wanted any actual response from management, stick your head in their office and ask. If it goes tits up, you are on your own though as inevitably they "dont recall" that conversation. I can highly reccomend - The Lowball Tapes - The secret tapes the authorities, on both sides of the Atlantic, wouldn’t want you to hear, that could upend the official version of the biggest scandal since the financial crash. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0014x77 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0014x77

steveBK123 4y ago
> Giving your personal phone number in any business context In US it's become the norm to not issue work device hardware anymore sadly. Some people didn't like carrying 2 devices, and firms like saving $$ so win-win. Nonetheless, I got a few compliance pings when WFH and giving my phone # over work chat to someone to call me. > Inevitable really - and if you wanted any actual response from management, stick your head in their office and ask. If it goes tits up, you are on your own though as inevitably they "dont recall" that conversation. Precisely. I worked for a guy who had a particularly egregiously offensive boss. The big boss would claim to not have read emails, saying "you have to talk to me, you can't just send me an email, how do you know I've read it?" but then when they did things verbally, the guy would be like "I don't recall that conversation, you need to email me". Basically lol nothing matters. Dude got himself a C-suite gig at a competitor, but made sure to fire my boss on his way out because he was a small spiteful man.