3 ms·

I’m a bit feared about the undersea communication cables.

by giuliomagnifico 4y ago

f1shy 4y ago
That is a good point, they also could be targeted. But I think there is enough redundancy in that case.
- askvictor 4y ago
  One would hope, but it's probably pretty easy for a nation state to attack dozens or more cables, and the sea is pretty huge and hard to police https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ https://www.submarinecablemap.com/
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Especially they can be repaired very quickly and the crews have a lot of experience given that damages e.g. from anchor droppings, earthquakes or ground-trawler fishing nets are very common. Worst case would be someone damaging a lot of cables at once, e.g. near Highbridge, Skewjack, Bude (UK) or Bilbao (Portugal) - almost all Europe-US links end there [1], so a single sabotage submarine could place time-based explosives that cause a sudden catastrophic loss, large enough to overwhelm the capacity of cable runner ships. In any case, a complete loss of communication between the US and Europe is highly unlikely. European traffic would simply be redirected among the bunch of SEA-ME-WE cables and hop from there over Malaysia and Japan to the US East Coast. A ton more latency and likely much less capacity along the route, but enough to survive. [1] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ https://www.submarinecablemap.com/
  - tpmx 4y ago
    Is it generally feasible to increase the capacity of surviving links dramatically "simply" by upgrading the equipment on land to the newest/most expensive stuff? Or would you need to upgrade all the repeaters in the sea as well?
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      Fascinatingly, I had thought the same as you, but it seems at least some submarine cables can be upgraded after installation, e.g. EIG [1] and AJC [2]. No idea what they do with the repeaters though, the distances involved in these cables are definitely higher than the 100km spacing repeaters have [3]. Maybe someone can chime in with direct experience? [1] https://www.submarinenetworks.com/en/systems/asia-europe-africa/eig/eig-cable-system-upgrades-with-additional-24-3tbps-capacity https://www.submarinenetworks.com/en/systems/asia-europe-afr... [2] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3485615/capacity-upgrade-for-australia-japan-submarine-cable.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3485615/capacity-upgra... [3] https://www.networkworld.com/article/2235353/the-incredible-international-submarine-cable-systems.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2235353/the-incredible-...
lm28469 4y ago
Which ones? https://energyindustryreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Submarine-Cable-Map.jpg https://energyindustryreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/...
pera 4y ago
Time to get a ham radio license maybe
rtwrtwer54 4y ago
Actually... so, the giant elephant in the room: this works just fine if it was done by US and/or allies. It is even a quite valid geopolitic strategic move - tough a bit crude, but hey this is war -, even risking the EU to discover it. But then, the russians are the only other ones that actually know they didn't dit it. Hence, an automatic license to answer was granted. They know the other side won't answer to their answer, because of escalation to kinetic or worse, nuclear. So, one possible, even the most feasible to be done without serious risk of escalation, would be to just go and sever some transatlantic cables. It's all the way international waters, it's accesible for underwater cover ops, it's not like messing with a nuclear reactor inside a state-nation, or cyber-trashing someones mainland infrastructure. So, if the russians didn't did it, they have now some "credit" to spend. You can just wonder where and when they will do this.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  At this point (and probably every other one too) I don’t think Russia can be considered one thing that acts in the country’s be interest. Between Putin, the oligarchs, the army and the other factions I have missed, there are a lot of motivations and we don’t see them.

I’m a bit feared about the undersea communication cables.

f1shy 4y ago

That is a good point, they also could be targeted. But I think there is enough redundancy in that case.

askvictor 4y ago
One would hope, but it's probably pretty easy for a nation state to attack dozens or more cables, and the sea is pretty huge and hard to police https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ https://www.submarinecablemap.com/
mschuster91 4y ago
Especially they can be repaired very quickly and the crews have a lot of experience given that damages e.g. from anchor droppings, earthquakes or ground-trawler fishing nets are very common. Worst case would be someone damaging a lot of cables at once, e.g. near Highbridge, Skewjack, Bude (UK) or Bilbao (Portugal) - almost all Europe-US links end there [1], so a single sabotage submarine could place time-based explosives that cause a sudden catastrophic loss, large enough to overwhelm the capacity of cable runner ships. In any case, a complete loss of communication between the US and Europe is highly unlikely. European traffic would simply be redirected among the bunch of SEA-ME-WE cables and hop from there over Malaysia and Japan to the US East Coast. A ton more latency and likely much less capacity along the route, but enough to survive. [1] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/ https://www.submarinecablemap.com/
- tpmx 4y ago
  Is it generally feasible to increase the capacity of surviving links dramatically "simply" by upgrading the equipment on land to the newest/most expensive stuff? Or would you need to upgrade all the repeaters in the sea as well?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Fascinatingly, I had thought the same as you, but it seems at least some submarine cables can be upgraded after installation, e.g. EIG [1] and AJC [2]. No idea what they do with the repeaters though, the distances involved in these cables are definitely higher than the 100km spacing repeaters have [3]. Maybe someone can chime in with direct experience? [1] https://www.submarinenetworks.com/en/systems/asia-europe-africa/eig/eig-cable-system-upgrades-with-additional-24-3tbps-capacity https://www.submarinenetworks.com/en/systems/asia-europe-afr... [2] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3485615/capacity-upgrade-for-australia-japan-submarine-cable.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3485615/capacity-upgra... [3] https://www.networkworld.com/article/2235353/the-incredible-international-submarine-cable-systems.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2235353/the-incredible-...

lm28469 4y ago

Which ones? https://energyindustryreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Submarine-Cable-Map.jpg https://energyindustryreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/...

pera 4y ago

Time to get a ham radio license maybe

rtwrtwer54 4y ago

Actually... so, the giant elephant in the room: this works just fine if it was done by US and/or allies. It is even a quite valid geopolitic strategic move - tough a bit crude, but hey this is war -, even risking the EU to discover it. But then, the russians are the only other ones that actually know they didn't dit it. Hence, an automatic license to answer was granted. They know the other side won't answer to their answer, because of escalation to kinetic or worse, nuclear. So, one possible, even the most feasible to be done without serious risk of escalation, would be to just go and sever some transatlantic cables. It's all the way international waters, it's accesible for underwater cover ops, it's not like messing with a nuclear reactor inside a state-nation, or cyber-trashing someones mainland infrastructure. So, if the russians didn't did it, they have now some "credit" to spend. You can just wonder where and when they will do this.

lostlogin 4y ago
At this point (and probably every other one too) I don’t think Russia can be considered one thing that acts in the country’s be interest. Between Putin, the oligarchs, the army and the other factions I have missed, there are a lot of motivations and we don’t see them.