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You have to scroll about 2/3rds of the way down the article to see the description of the crash: >> Andrew entered the left lane on the far side of the road as

by u801e 4y ago

You have to scroll about 2/3rds of the way down the article to see the description of the crash: >> Andrew entered the left lane on the far side of the road as a 19-year-old was driving down it in a red Toyota Camry. In a statement included in the police report, the driver said he was headed to Starbucks and estimated he was going 55 mph. The speed limit was 40. At 55 mph, it takes the distance of a football field to stop a car. Suddenly there was a boy on a bike in the road before him and now that boy and his bike were rolling up the hood and into the windshield that abruptly shattered and now they were airborne and now they were not and the driver was pulling off to the side of the road and running over to the boy lying in the road by his twisted bike but the boy wasn’t moving. It all happened so quickly. The driver called 911. Earlier in the article, they mention that he had been taught to cross in the crosswalk: >> He crossed, probably, in the crosswalk because he’d been taught he’d be protected there Searching google maps, this intersection[1] may be the one he crossed, but the article didn't really specify where he crossed, so it's not possible to determine whether he crossed at an intersection in a crosswalk or mid-block. From the description in the article it says: >> Andrew entered the left lane on the far side of the road as a 19-year-old was driving down it in a red Toyota Camry. Does that mean that the motorist was going to run a red light? Was the cyclist crossing on a red light or a don't walk signal? Looking through Google streetview on Hempstead Turnpike between N Wantagh Ave and Berger Ave, there are no mid-block crosswalks that I can see; the only crosswalks are at traffic signal controlled intersections. If the motorist ran a red light, then why wasn't he arrested and/or charged with violating that law? The motorist admitted he was exceeding the posted speed limit by a significant amount, but he wasn't even charged with speeding. Or did the cyclist just cross mid block without checking for approaching traffic or crossed against the light and/or pedestrian signal? [1] https://goo.gl/maps/pida8vz91j5iumjGA https://goo.gl/maps/pida8vz91j5iumjGA

pronlover723 4y ago
You're looking for fault and there's something to that but there's also just re-designing the streets to prevent the accidents in the first place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY also https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lessons-from-the-dutch-traffic-safety-revolution https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lesso...
- u801e 4y ago
  Crashes have a number of factors that lead up to one. When the NTSB investigates an aircraft incident, they look into the actions or lack thereof that lead up to the incident and issue recommendations based on what their investigation finds. They don't look for fault, but they look into what could be done to prevent it from happening again. Could we not do something similar here? What lead up to the crash? Is there a police report that describes the events leading up to the crash in more detail? What about witness statements or video recordings that may have captured the events leading up to the crash or the crash itself.
  - HellsMaddy 4y ago
    "Why Cars Rarely Crash into Buildings in the Netherlands": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_0DgnJ1uQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_0DgnJ1uQ tl;dw: because they actually do what you suggest, and they incorporate their findings into better road designs.
  - davidw 4y ago
    The fault is to some degree the design of the road. It's fine to have highways that convey people in cars quickly from one place to another at high speed. But these should have few exits, and pedestrians and cyclists should not be anywhere near them. Streets in cities should be slow and safe for all road users. Here's an article about a known deadly street. There's been a push to redesign it to be safer, but some people place a higher value on the convenience of carrying more car traffic. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/9/23/springfield-delays-redesign-of-deadly-street-to-prioritize-traffic-flow https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/9/23/springfield-de...
    - u801e 4y ago
      > The fault is to some degree the design of the road. What specifically about the design of the road? You allude to the fact that it allows for traffic to move at high speeds in close proximity to cyclists and pedestrians and this is one of the factors behind why the crash happened. But this particular crash didn't involve a motorist running off the roadway and crashing into the cyclist. The article states that the cyclist was in the left lane on the far side of the road just before the crash. This indicates that the motorist never left the roadway and that the cyclist was on the roadway. Given the fact that there's no mention in the article about the motorist failing to comply with a traffic signal, it also indicates that either the cyclist was crossing mid-block outside of the crosswalk, or was crossing in a crosswalk without waiting for the walk signal. Going back to the road design, the point that it allows motorists to drive at higher speeds is one factor. But what other factors would lead to someone attempting to cross against a light or outside a crosswalk? From a pedestrian point of view, having to walk relatively far to even get to a crosswalk is one thing to consider. Another thing to consider is how long they have to wait for a walk signal. These factors lead to pedestrians crossing without a walk signal or mid-block. For a cyclist, the amount of time to get to an intersection isn't as much of a factor because you can move far faster than walking pace when riding a bike. So that leaves the amount of time it would take to wait for the walk signal as a factor that would encourage non-compliance. Besides slowing traffic down, what else can be done to improve safety for cyclists? Could we promote cyclist education where they learn how to navigate intersections in a vehicular manner? Could we improve traffic lights so that they they can detect cyclists and chagne in a reasonable period of time to discourage non-compliance before crossing an intersection? For pedestrians, could we provide more frequent crossing points? Could we improve pedestrian signal timings so that they don't have to wait so long for a walk signal?

by u801e 4y ago

pronlover723 4y ago

You're looking for fault and there's something to that but there's also just re-designing the streets to prevent the accidents in the first place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY also https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lessons-from-the-dutch-traffic-safety-revolution https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lesso...

u801e 4y ago
Crashes have a number of factors that lead up to one. When the NTSB investigates an aircraft incident, they look into the actions or lack thereof that lead up to the incident and issue recommendations based on what their investigation finds. They don't look for fault, but they look into what could be done to prevent it from happening again. Could we not do something similar here? What lead up to the crash? Is there a police report that describes the events leading up to the crash in more detail? What about witness statements or video recordings that may have captured the events leading up to the crash or the crash itself.
- HellsMaddy 4y ago
  "Why Cars Rarely Crash into Buildings in the Netherlands": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_0DgnJ1uQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_0DgnJ1uQ tl;dw: because they actually do what you suggest, and they incorporate their findings into better road designs.
- davidw 4y ago
  The fault is to some degree the design of the road. It's fine to have highways that convey people in cars quickly from one place to another at high speed. But these should have few exits, and pedestrians and cyclists should not be anywhere near them. Streets in cities should be slow and safe for all road users. Here's an article about a known deadly street. There's been a push to redesign it to be safer, but some people place a higher value on the convenience of carrying more car traffic. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/9/23/springfield-delays-redesign-of-deadly-street-to-prioritize-traffic-flow https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/9/23/springfield-de...
  - u801e 4y ago
    > The fault is to some degree the design of the road. What specifically about the design of the road? You allude to the fact that it allows for traffic to move at high speeds in close proximity to cyclists and pedestrians and this is one of the factors behind why the crash happened. But this particular crash didn't involve a motorist running off the roadway and crashing into the cyclist. The article states that the cyclist was in the left lane on the far side of the road just before the crash. This indicates that the motorist never left the roadway and that the cyclist was on the roadway. Given the fact that there's no mention in the article about the motorist failing to comply with a traffic signal, it also indicates that either the cyclist was crossing mid-block outside of the crosswalk, or was crossing in a crosswalk without waiting for the walk signal. Going back to the road design, the point that it allows motorists to drive at higher speeds is one factor. But what other factors would lead to someone attempting to cross against a light or outside a crosswalk? From a pedestrian point of view, having to walk relatively far to even get to a crosswalk is one thing to consider. Another thing to consider is how long they have to wait for a walk signal. These factors lead to pedestrians crossing without a walk signal or mid-block. For a cyclist, the amount of time to get to an intersection isn't as much of a factor because you can move far faster than walking pace when riding a bike. So that leaves the amount of time it would take to wait for the walk signal as a factor that would encourage non-compliance. Besides slowing traffic down, what else can be done to improve safety for cyclists? Could we promote cyclist education where they learn how to navigate intersections in a vehicular manner? Could we improve traffic lights so that they they can detect cyclists and chagne in a reasonable period of time to discourage non-compliance before crossing an intersection? For pedestrians, could we provide more frequent crossing points? Could we improve pedestrian signal timings so that they don't have to wait so long for a walk signal?