17 ms·

The most dangerous road for cyclists in America

165 points by laurex 4y ago

pronlover723 4y ago
Only tangentially related but .... In California, a double white line is supposed to mean "don't cross period" https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21460 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio.... > (b) If double parallel solid white lines are in place, a person driving a vehicle shall not cross any part of those double solid white lines, except as permitted in this section or Section 21655.8. > (d) The markings as specified in subdivision (a), (b), or (c) do not prohibit a driver from crossing the marking if (1) turning to the left at an intersection or into or out of a driveway or private road, or (2) making a U-turn under the rules governing that turn, and the markings shall be disregarded when authorized signs have been erected designating offcenter traffic lanes as permitted pursuant to Section 21657. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21655.8 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... > (a) Except as required under subdivision (b), when exclusive or preferential use lanes for high-occupancy vehicles are established pursuant to Section 21655.5 and double parallel solid lines are in place to the right thereof, no person driving a vehicle may cross over these double lines to enter into or exit from the exclusive or preferential use lanes, and entrance or exit may be made only in areas designated for these purposes or where a single broken line is in place to the right of the exclusive or preferential use lanes. > (b) Upon the approach of an authorized emergency vehicle displaying a red light or siren, as specified in Section 21806, a person driving a vehicle in an exclusive or preferential use lane shall exit that lane immediately upon determining that the exit can be accomplished with reasonable safety. > (c) Raised pavement markers may be used to simulate painted lines described in this section. Given that, it's interesting that a few sections of Valencia street, between 18th and 19th https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco,+CA/@37.7607725,-122.4214504,63m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f7e3c4d2e22ed:0x99cfd636890e9deb!8m2!3d37.7590813!4d-122.4213514 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco... Between 15 and 17th https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco,+CA/@37.7637657,-122.4218086,63m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f7e3c4d2e22ed:0x99cfd636890e9deb!8m2!3d37.7590813!4d-122.4213514 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco... Have double solid white lines separating the bike lane from the car lane. But, past the bike line are car parking spots. Given the law above, it would be illegal to use those parking spots since it's illegal to cross the lines to get to them. I brought this up because cycling down Valencia the cycling lanes are often blocked by cars stopped for deliveries, pickups, dropoffs, other and so cyclists have to dangerously move into the car lanes. I did see some police the other day telling these cars they had to move but I suspect that's rare. I don't know what the perfect solution is. Further down, like around 14th is I think a better solution where it's street->parking->bike instead of street->bike->parking. This puts a barrier of parked cars between the bikes and the traffic. At the same time, some accommodation for deliveries to businesses, people moving into/out of apartments, etc needs to be made. Also, more on topic, the latest "Not Just Bikes" video is all about how deadly roads are but don't have to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY
- bagels 4y ago
  Putting parked cars to the left, like separated bike lanes, reduce your visibility to cars turning right, but adds the extra bonus of car doors and pedestrians walking in the bike lane completely unaware of their surroundings.
- et-al 4y ago
  The rules of the road don't matter if they're not enforced in America. Which in San Francisco is now a rare occurrence: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/sfpd-traffic-tickets-17355651.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article... So the solution now is better infrastructure. And ideally more than just soft-hit posts, aka vertical paint": https://mobile.twitter.com/JGrantGlover/status/1531005837866590208 https://mobile.twitter.com/JGrantGlover/status/1531005837866...
liminalsunset 4y ago
In the absence of any hope of a quick and easy solution for car and pedestrian interactions, there are a couple of rules I always follow personally when crossing. 1) Cars always go first/have right of way, and I will wait until ideally, there is a gap in traffic 2) Move into a position where you are "almost" obstructing the vehicle's path (to get driver to stop, but to be able to pull back if they do not), and stare at the driver and make eye contact, waiting until the vehicle comes to a stop before entering its path. 3) Once in the path of the vehicle, sprint or move as quickly as possible out of the vehicle's path to avoid the eager accelerators 4) if possible, tag onto a group of strangers (run to catch up if needed, then stick with group). Cars have a lower chance of running over a larger group of people 5) Spend as little time as possible in the roadway, move quickly, and mentally focus on crossing before reaching intersection
- resoluteteeth 4y ago
  It's not great that you have to do something like a fairly complicated extreme sport just to cross the road.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >4) if possible, tag onto a group of strangers (run to catch up if needed, then stick with group). Cars have a lower chance of running over a larger group of people There's an old saying in Japan that goes: "It ain't scary crossing a red light when you're in a group!" :V
  - resoluteteeth 4y ago
    > There's an old saying in Japan that goes: "It ain't scary crossing a red light when you're in a group!" :V Originally that wasn't even a saying, it was a joke (famously told by Beat Takeshi's comedy duo around 1980). I guess that's long enough ago that you can say it's old now and because it sounded so much like a saying it's basically accepted as a saying now though.
avastmick 4y ago
The road toll in the US is staggering given its wealth. The conversation to reduce it doesn’t obviously exist like it does in other places. The NHTSA figures showed an increase per kilometre in 2021, where many developed nations are showing a year on year reduction. Any Americans want to posit a reason why?
- resoluteteeth 4y ago
  The conventional answer is that vehicles are getting bigger/higher off the ground/heavier in the US. Some new pickup trucks are so big and have such a bad view of the road in front of them that you can't even see a normal sized car stopped in front out the windshield and they need to have a front camera. A lot of SUVs aren't quite there yet but they are getting ridiculously big/heavy and still high enough that it's hard to see children in front. The height means that the bumper is positioned in a much worse way and rather than rolling on the windshield you'll just die if you're hit. The weight also increases the risk to pedestrians in a collision. Also, some other countries are doing much more serious things to reduce pedestrian/cyclist deaths while the US is doing pretty much nothing.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    The other side of the coin is that you're safer inside a bigger and heavier vehicle when you're inevitably in an accident. A big Ford F-350 is going to have a much better chance of successfully protecting its passengers than a Toyota Camry.
    - chillwaves 4y ago
      Based on what? I have never heard of this rule "Bigger = safer". Nothing "inevitable" about accidents.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - midoridensha 4y ago
culopatin 4y ago
The title mentions the most dangerous road, but I see no pictures or visual details of the road itself except for a terrible picture taken from a corner that looks like 80% of the multiple lane roads in America.
- professionalguy 4y ago
  I was also looking for photos or diagrams of the road. So weird they didn’t include any.
  - nothans2 4y ago
- busterarm 4y ago
  I've seen accidents out there. I guessed that this was the stretch of road correctly before even reading the article.
  - genewitch 4y ago
    I guessed Pacific Coast Highway, but i actually had a worse time biking everywhere in california on Imperial Highway. I live in Central Louisiana now, and while i loved the health benefits of biking, i will never bike in louisiana. There is no infrastructure at all for anyone except motorists anywhere except a 4 block area downtown.
- bglazer 4y ago
  That’s because it literally looks like 80% of the multiple lane roads in America. There are probably >20 intersections in my city that would be completely indistinguishable. https://maps.app.goo.gl/vGr7gyiEPTfXxtY17?g_st=ic https://maps.app.goo.gl/vGr7gyiEPTfXxtY17?g_st=ic It’s also the point of the article. These very dangerous designs are everywhere and they kill thousands every year. A man was killed in my city two nights ago on an arterial just like this one.
- happytoexplain 4y ago
throwayyy479087 4y ago
Fantastically written article that, like many others in it’s genre, will be ignored
WalterBright 4y ago
I stopped biking to work decades ago because I figured it was only a matter of time before a car whizzing by 2 feet away at 50 mph was going to hit me.
- kjkjadksj 4y ago
  This is why you take the whole lane. Cars are forced to merge like they do around any other stopped or slow traffic, giving you a lot more room than if you allow them to squeeze by in the same lane as you, near where the parked cars are swinging their doors.
nothans2 4y ago
nothans2 4y ago
u801e 4y ago
You have to scroll about 2/3rds of the way down the article to see the description of the crash: >> Andrew entered the left lane on the far side of the road as a 19-year-old was driving down it in a red Toyota Camry. In a statement included in the police report, the driver said he was headed to Starbucks and estimated he was going 55 mph. The speed limit was 40. At 55 mph, it takes the distance of a football field to stop a car. Suddenly there was a boy on a bike in the road before him and now that boy and his bike were rolling up the hood and into the windshield that abruptly shattered and now they were airborne and now they were not and the driver was pulling off to the side of the road and running over to the boy lying in the road by his twisted bike but the boy wasn’t moving. It all happened so quickly. The driver called 911. Earlier in the article, they mention that he had been taught to cross in the crosswalk: >> He crossed, probably, in the crosswalk because he’d been taught he’d be protected there Searching google maps, this intersection[1] may be the one he crossed, but the article didn't really specify where he crossed, so it's not possible to determine whether he crossed at an intersection in a crosswalk or mid-block. From the description in the article it says: >> Andrew entered the left lane on the far side of the road as a 19-year-old was driving down it in a red Toyota Camry. Does that mean that the motorist was going to run a red light? Was the cyclist crossing on a red light or a don't walk signal? Looking through Google streetview on Hempstead Turnpike between N Wantagh Ave and Berger Ave, there are no mid-block crosswalks that I can see; the only crosswalks are at traffic signal controlled intersections. If the motorist ran a red light, then why wasn't he arrested and/or charged with violating that law? The motorist admitted he was exceeding the posted speed limit by a significant amount, but he wasn't even charged with speeding. Or did the cyclist just cross mid block without checking for approaching traffic or crossed against the light and/or pedestrian signal? [1] https://goo.gl/maps/pida8vz91j5iumjGA https://goo.gl/maps/pida8vz91j5iumjGA
- pronlover723 4y ago
  You're looking for fault and there's something to that but there's also just re-designing the streets to prevent the accidents in the first place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY also https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lessons-from-the-dutch-traffic-safety-revolution https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lesso...
deleted 4y ago
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Lammy 4y ago
Clickbait: “Hempstead Turnpike is a congested section of state Highway 24 that starts at the edge of New York City, the eastern border of Queens, near a ballfield encircled by an on-ramp. It runs 16 miles east into Long Island, through Elmont, Franklin Square, West Hempstead, Hempstead, Uniondale, Salisbury, East Meadow, Levittown, Plainedge, and Farmingdale.”
- ojbyrne 4y ago
  You should probably why that excerpt makes the article click bait.
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
    I think the idea is that the title is clickbait, because it doesn’t include the name of the road.
    - genewitch 4y ago
      not only that, it took about 60% of the article before i realized this was in new york!
asoneth 4y ago
At one point I was determined to move to a car-free neighborhood in the US. Unfortunately they all seem to be tourist islands: Fire Island, Monhegan Island, Mackinac Island, Bald Head Island, etc. I gave up and resigned myself to teaching my kids how to avoid being killed by drivers and advocating for safer street design. But if someone ever builds a Cyclocroft[1] or Culdesac[2] in my region I'd happily move there. [1] https://twitter.com/mrmoneymustache/status/1096078409568989184 https://twitter.com/mrmoneymustache/status/10960784095689891... [2] https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/
- rhodin 4y ago
  No just Bikes has an episode about a car free neighborhood [1], in Canada. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWDFgzAjr1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWDFgzAjr1k
  - asoneth 4y ago
    Love the channel. The Toronto Islands seem like an attractive place to live. With a population of only ~700 and a (full) waiting list capped at 500 it's clearly in high demand, which makes it all the more strange to me that more developers aren't building places like these. I mean, I can't be the only one who is willing to pay 2-3x more to live in a neighborhood with no cars.
    - dagurp 4y ago
      Because in most places in North America it would be illegal to build because of strict zoning laws https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=ajSEIdjkU8E https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=ajSEIdjkU8E
    - Thorrez 4y ago
      Well in this case the no-car neighborhood's houses are 1/3 the price of normal houses due to a weird law. I wonder how much that contributes to the waitlist.
  - ahaferburg 4y ago
WalterBright 4y ago
Many years ago I took a course in high performance driving. One of the takeaways is the advice to always be predictable. Being predictable means the other drivers can avoid you. Being unpredictable means they'll hit you. Give the other drivers a chance to avoid hitting you. I bring this up because Drivers' Ed never mentioned it. For an obvious example, using turn signals is being predictable. Not passing on the right is being predictable. Driving at the same speed as the rest of the traffic is being predictable. There are all kinds of traffic laws, but most boil down to just be predictable. For the cyclists, please don't draft behind some unwitting driver. (Yes, I see this now and then.) Please don't randomly weave in and out of traffic. And please don't bike across the crosswalk, walk your bike across it. Drivers cannot react fast enough to a bike darting across the road. And when the bike lane does a Kriss-Kross across a car lane, stay alive and don't do it in front of traffic.
- sebnukem2 4y ago
  If a driver cannot react fast enough to someone on a crosswalk, then the driver is driving too fast. Cyclists don't throw themselves right in front of a moving car. It's a lot safer to cross on a crosswalk, even on a bike.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    > If a driver cannot react fast enough to someone on a crosswalk, then the driver is driving too fast. You can be going 25 and a cyclist veering into the crosswalk right in front of you is going to get hit. So will one appearing in the crosswalk where a parked truck on the side of the road is blocking the view to the right of the crosswalk. Those caused the fatal crashes I know of, and the drivers in both were not charged. > Cyclists don't throw themselves right in front of a moving car. Yes, they do. > It's a lot safer to cross on a crosswalk, even on a bike. The safe way to cross on a crosswalk is to wait expectantly until the traffic sees you and stops, and then cross. There is no other safe way. Remember, you mom prolly told you not to run across the street, but walk. Same reason.
- nicbou 4y ago
  "Don't be polite, be predictable"
rjdagost 4y ago
One of the big differences between the US and Europe in this regard is the much larger proportion of bicyclists in Europe. In Europe, the larger number of bicyclists trains you as a driver to always be on the lookout for them. Driving past a bicyclist in the US is a much rarer event. Drivers should of course always be vigilant for anything in their way, but as a practical matter it's easier to mentally drift off when bicyclists are much less common.
- greggman3 4y ago
  This appears a choice by Europe or at least some cities. Pictures of how bike unfriendly it was in the 70s https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in-the-1970s-what-changed/ https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in...
renewiltord 4y ago
Owning an SUV, a truck, a bicycle, and a motorcycle I can tell you that there is this huge difference between a motorist incident and a cyclist incident. If you don't have a VIN you're not in the system and you can die and it won't matter. Being legible to the state is important.
bigbacaloa 4y ago
In much of Europe stoplights are on the near side of na intersection and there are stoplights exiting intersections as well as entering. This facilitates integration of pedestrian and bike lanes/crossing (often these are separate). Also there are no left turns across traffic, instead there are roundabouts, and these are more easily integrated with cyclist lanes. Finally, of course, cars are smaller (on the the other hand, so are streets).
- jrockway 4y ago
  Not Just Bikes did a video about the timing/switching algorithm of European traffic lights recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY They look amazing. Wish we had them here in the US.
- watwut 4y ago
  > In much of Europe stoplights are on the near side of na intersection and there are stoplights exiting intersections as well as entering. This facilitates integration of pedestrian and bike lanes/crossing (often these are separate). How, I dont see it?
up2isomorphism 4y ago
The majority of USA does not even have the minimum design that allows bike safety and nothing can be done about it since building anything now is almost impossible. It is just foolish to insist a life style that doesn’t have a infrastructural support.
dclowd9901 4y ago
cycomanic 4y ago
> the driver said he was headed to Starbucks and estimated he was going 55 mph. The speed limit was 40. And the driver was not charged with a crime? In many countries if you drive over the speed limit and kill someone that's a manslaughter charge. Several countries always have a driver at fault if there is an accident with a bike or car.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  I think you found the real problem with this stretch of road - the DA hates bicyclists.
black_13 4y ago
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
All the roads on Long Island suck for bicyclists. No shoulders, for the most part (and when there are shoulders, they are wastelands of rubble, trash, and dead varmints). Also, Long Island drivers are, to put it charitably, downright terrible. There was a story, a few years ago, about a local town official, that said that people just shouldn’t ride bikes on Long Island. It went viral, and he was pilloried in the Court of Public Opinion, but he was actually probably right. It has nothing to do with bicyclists being a problem, and everything to do with Long Island being the problem.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
LatteLazy 4y ago
I am always surprised by this: I live in the UK, our roads are narrow and winding because they are basically medieval (or Roman even) tracks that have been gradually upgraded. It sort or makes sense to me that cycling here is dangerous. But in my experience US roads are very large with many lanes and lanes much wider than cars. It feels like it should be easy to (a) avoid other road uses and (b) take some space to give them dedicated spaces.
- wil421 4y ago
  As a comparison I looked up London and they had 81 deaths in 2019. 75 pedestrians and 6 cyclists killed. Still less than NYC. Paris had 16 pedestrian deaths in 2019. I think 58 in Rome in 2018.
ahaferburg 4y ago
If you're interested in topics like city design and infrastructure, walkability, cycling, people on foot or bicycle not getting killed by cars, I highly recommend the Youtube channel Not Just Bikes. It was created by a Canadian who emigrated to the Netherlands, with interesting and entertaining videos, often comparing the situation in North America to European (mostly Dutch) cities. Very bingeable. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A
BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 4y ago
NEVER RIDE A BIKE IN A CROSSWALK or a scooter for that matter. I've seen cyclists blast across crosswalks in the dark and fortunately my ABS prevented me from hitting them. And there's been a number of near misses with cyclists blasting down a sidewalk into the crosswalk when I'm turning left. Space does not permit me to catalog all the scenarios of [usually] failed cyclist suicides. Cyclists see more of the environment immediately around than drivers whose eyes are typically 6-7' behind the front bumper. Unfortunately cyclists are mostly unaware that a driver can not see as much of the surroundings as can a cyclist. Driver perception is adequate in the case of a pedestrian approaching and entering a crosswalk at walking speed of 3 mph. It does not work for a cyclist at 15-25 mph = 30' per second 20-50' away from the curb. Earlier on I commuted some 15 km each way by bike, but as I got older I was more choosy of my routes and eventually switched to roller blading opposite traffic so I could hop the curb when necessary. Stupidity in drivers, cyclists and pedestrians will always be with us. Nobody will do anything to miss you if they don't see you.
decafninja 4y ago
It boggles my mind how much the HN crowd utterly despises cars. I could never imagine myself living without a car, even in cities/countries with amazing public transit (NYC is not such a place). I am 100% in agreement for banning cars from dense urban cores. But my impression is that people here want to go much, much, further than that, ranging from exterminating the concept of suburbs all the way to exterminating all privately owned cars ensuring the only way to visit Grandma‘s farm is via bus.

165 points by laurex 4y ago

Only tangentially related but .... In California, a double white line is supposed to mean "don't cross period" https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21460 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio.... > (b) If double parallel solid white lines are in place, a person driving a vehicle shall not cross any part of those double solid white lines, except as permitted in this section or Section 21655.8. > (d) The markings as specified in subdivision (a), (b), or (c) do not prohibit a driver from crossing the marking if (1) turning to the left at an intersection or into or out of a driveway or private road, or (2) making a U-turn under the rules governing that turn, and the markings shall be disregarded when authorized signs have been erected designating offcenter traffic lanes as permitted pursuant to Section 21657. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=21655.8 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio... > (a) Except as required under subdivision (b), when exclusive or preferential use lanes for high-occupancy vehicles are established pursuant to Section 21655.5 and double parallel solid lines are in place to the right thereof, no person driving a vehicle may cross over these double lines to enter into or exit from the exclusive or preferential use lanes, and entrance or exit may be made only in areas designated for these purposes or where a single broken line is in place to the right of the exclusive or preferential use lanes. > (b) Upon the approach of an authorized emergency vehicle displaying a red light or siren, as specified in Section 21806, a person driving a vehicle in an exclusive or preferential use lane shall exit that lane immediately upon determining that the exit can be accomplished with reasonable safety. > (c) Raised pavement markers may be used to simulate painted lines described in this section. Given that, it's interesting that a few sections of Valencia street, between 18th and 19th https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco,+CA/@37.7607725,-122.4214504,63m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f7e3c4d2e22ed:0x99cfd636890e9deb!8m2!3d37.7590813!4d-122.4213514 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco... Between 15 and 17th https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco,+CA/@37.7637657,-122.4218086,63m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x808f7e3c4d2e22ed:0x99cfd636890e9deb!8m2!3d37.7590813!4d-122.4213514 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Valencia+St,+San+Francisco... Have double solid white lines separating the bike lane from the car lane. But, past the bike line are car parking spots. Given the law above, it would be illegal to use those parking spots since it's illegal to cross the lines to get to them. I brought this up because cycling down Valencia the cycling lanes are often blocked by cars stopped for deliveries, pickups, dropoffs, other and so cyclists have to dangerously move into the car lanes. I did see some police the other day telling these cars they had to move but I suspect that's rare. I don't know what the perfect solution is. Further down, like around 14th is I think a better solution where it's street->parking->bike instead of street->bike->parking. This puts a barrier of parked cars between the bikes and the traffic. At the same time, some accommodation for deliveries to businesses, people moving into/out of apartments, etc needs to be made. Also, more on topic, the latest "Not Just Bikes" video is all about how deadly roads are but don't have to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY

bagels 4y ago
Putting parked cars to the left, like separated bike lanes, reduce your visibility to cars turning right, but adds the extra bonus of car doors and pedestrians walking in the bike lane completely unaware of their surroundings.
et-al 4y ago
The rules of the road don't matter if they're not enforced in America. Which in San Francisco is now a rare occurrence: https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article/sfpd-traffic-tickets-17355651.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/bayarea/heatherknight/article... So the solution now is better infrastructure. And ideally more than just soft-hit posts, aka vertical paint": https://mobile.twitter.com/JGrantGlover/status/1531005837866590208 https://mobile.twitter.com/JGrantGlover/status/1531005837866...

liminalsunset 4y ago

In the absence of any hope of a quick and easy solution for car and pedestrian interactions, there are a couple of rules I always follow personally when crossing. 1) Cars always go first/have right of way, and I will wait until ideally, there is a gap in traffic 2) Move into a position where you are "almost" obstructing the vehicle's path (to get driver to stop, but to be able to pull back if they do not), and stare at the driver and make eye contact, waiting until the vehicle comes to a stop before entering its path. 3) Once in the path of the vehicle, sprint or move as quickly as possible out of the vehicle's path to avoid the eager accelerators 4) if possible, tag onto a group of strangers (run to catch up if needed, then stick with group). Cars have a lower chance of running over a larger group of people 5) Spend as little time as possible in the roadway, move quickly, and mentally focus on crossing before reaching intersection

resoluteteeth 4y ago
It's not great that you have to do something like a fairly complicated extreme sport just to cross the road.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Dalewyn 4y ago
>4) if possible, tag onto a group of strangers (run to catch up if needed, then stick with group). Cars have a lower chance of running over a larger group of people There's an old saying in Japan that goes: "It ain't scary crossing a red light when you're in a group!" :V
- resoluteteeth 4y ago
  > There's an old saying in Japan that goes: "It ain't scary crossing a red light when you're in a group!" :V Originally that wasn't even a saying, it was a joke (famously told by Beat Takeshi's comedy duo around 1980). I guess that's long enough ago that you can say it's old now and because it sounded so much like a saying it's basically accepted as a saying now though.

avastmick 4y ago

The road toll in the US is staggering given its wealth. The conversation to reduce it doesn’t obviously exist like it does in other places. The NHTSA figures showed an increase per kilometre in 2021, where many developed nations are showing a year on year reduction. Any Americans want to posit a reason why?

resoluteteeth 4y ago
The conventional answer is that vehicles are getting bigger/higher off the ground/heavier in the US. Some new pickup trucks are so big and have such a bad view of the road in front of them that you can't even see a normal sized car stopped in front out the windshield and they need to have a front camera. A lot of SUVs aren't quite there yet but they are getting ridiculously big/heavy and still high enough that it's hard to see children in front. The height means that the bumper is positioned in a much worse way and rather than rolling on the windshield you'll just die if you're hit. The weight also increases the risk to pedestrians in a collision. Also, some other countries are doing much more serious things to reduce pedestrian/cyclist deaths while the US is doing pretty much nothing.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The other side of the coin is that you're safer inside a bigger and heavier vehicle when you're inevitably in an accident. A big Ford F-350 is going to have a much better chance of successfully protecting its passengers than a Toyota Camry.
  - chillwaves 4y ago
    Based on what? I have never heard of this rule "Bigger = safer". Nothing "inevitable" about accidents.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - midoridensha 4y ago

culopatin 4y ago

The title mentions the most dangerous road, but I see no pictures or visual details of the road itself except for a terrible picture taken from a corner that looks like 80% of the multiple lane roads in America.

professionalguy 4y ago
I was also looking for photos or diagrams of the road. So weird they didn’t include any.
- nothans2 4y ago
busterarm 4y ago
I've seen accidents out there. I guessed that this was the stretch of road correctly before even reading the article.
- genewitch 4y ago
  I guessed Pacific Coast Highway, but i actually had a worse time biking everywhere in california on Imperial Highway. I live in Central Louisiana now, and while i loved the health benefits of biking, i will never bike in louisiana. There is no infrastructure at all for anyone except motorists anywhere except a 4 block area downtown.
bglazer 4y ago
That’s because it literally looks like 80% of the multiple lane roads in America. There are probably >20 intersections in my city that would be completely indistinguishable. https://maps.app.goo.gl/vGr7gyiEPTfXxtY17?g_st=ic https://maps.app.goo.gl/vGr7gyiEPTfXxtY17?g_st=ic It’s also the point of the article. These very dangerous designs are everywhere and they kill thousands every year. A man was killed in my city two nights ago on an arterial just like this one.
happytoexplain 4y ago

throwayyy479087 4y ago

Fantastically written article that, like many others in it’s genre, will be ignored

WalterBright 4y ago

I stopped biking to work decades ago because I figured it was only a matter of time before a car whizzing by 2 feet away at 50 mph was going to hit me.

kjkjadksj 4y ago
This is why you take the whole lane. Cars are forced to merge like they do around any other stopped or slow traffic, giving you a lot more room than if you allow them to squeeze by in the same lane as you, near where the parked cars are swinging their doors.

nothans2 4y ago

u801e 4y ago

You have to scroll about 2/3rds of the way down the article to see the description of the crash: >> Andrew entered the left lane on the far side of the road as a 19-year-old was driving down it in a red Toyota Camry. In a statement included in the police report, the driver said he was headed to Starbucks and estimated he was going 55 mph. The speed limit was 40. At 55 mph, it takes the distance of a football field to stop a car. Suddenly there was a boy on a bike in the road before him and now that boy and his bike were rolling up the hood and into the windshield that abruptly shattered and now they were airborne and now they were not and the driver was pulling off to the side of the road and running over to the boy lying in the road by his twisted bike but the boy wasn’t moving. It all happened so quickly. The driver called 911. Earlier in the article, they mention that he had been taught to cross in the crosswalk: >> He crossed, probably, in the crosswalk because he’d been taught he’d be protected there Searching google maps, this intersection[1] may be the one he crossed, but the article didn't really specify where he crossed, so it's not possible to determine whether he crossed at an intersection in a crosswalk or mid-block. From the description in the article it says: >> Andrew entered the left lane on the far side of the road as a 19-year-old was driving down it in a red Toyota Camry. Does that mean that the motorist was going to run a red light? Was the cyclist crossing on a red light or a don't walk signal? Looking through Google streetview on Hempstead Turnpike between N Wantagh Ave and Berger Ave, there are no mid-block crosswalks that I can see; the only crosswalks are at traffic signal controlled intersections. If the motorist ran a red light, then why wasn't he arrested and/or charged with violating that law? The motorist admitted he was exceeding the posted speed limit by a significant amount, but he wasn't even charged with speeding. Or did the cyclist just cross mid block without checking for approaching traffic or crossed against the light and/or pedestrian signal? [1] https://goo.gl/maps/pida8vz91j5iumjGA https://goo.gl/maps/pida8vz91j5iumjGA

pronlover723 4y ago
You're looking for fault and there's something to that but there's also just re-designing the streets to prevent the accidents in the first place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY also https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lessons-from-the-dutch-traffic-safety-revolution https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/u-s-lesso...

deleted 4y ago

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Lammy 4y ago

Clickbait: “Hempstead Turnpike is a congested section of state Highway 24 that starts at the edge of New York City, the eastern border of Queens, near a ballfield encircled by an on-ramp. It runs 16 miles east into Long Island, through Elmont, Franklin Square, West Hempstead, Hempstead, Uniondale, Salisbury, East Meadow, Levittown, Plainedge, and Farmingdale.”

ojbyrne 4y ago
You should probably why that excerpt makes the article click bait.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  I think the idea is that the title is clickbait, because it doesn’t include the name of the road.
  - genewitch 4y ago
    not only that, it took about 60% of the article before i realized this was in new york!

asoneth 4y ago

At one point I was determined to move to a car-free neighborhood in the US. Unfortunately they all seem to be tourist islands: Fire Island, Monhegan Island, Mackinac Island, Bald Head Island, etc. I gave up and resigned myself to teaching my kids how to avoid being killed by drivers and advocating for safer street design. But if someone ever builds a Cyclocroft[1] or Culdesac[2] in my region I'd happily move there. [1] https://twitter.com/mrmoneymustache/status/1096078409568989184 https://twitter.com/mrmoneymustache/status/10960784095689891... [2] https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/

rhodin 4y ago
No just Bikes has an episode about a car free neighborhood [1], in Canada. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWDFgzAjr1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWDFgzAjr1k
- asoneth 4y ago
  Love the channel. The Toronto Islands seem like an attractive place to live. With a population of only ~700 and a (full) waiting list capped at 500 it's clearly in high demand, which makes it all the more strange to me that more developers aren't building places like these. I mean, I can't be the only one who is willing to pay 2-3x more to live in a neighborhood with no cars.
  - dagurp 4y ago
    Because in most places in North America it would be illegal to build because of strict zoning laws https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=ajSEIdjkU8E https://piped.kavin.rocks/watch?v=ajSEIdjkU8E
  - Thorrez 4y ago
    Well in this case the no-car neighborhood's houses are 1/3 the price of normal houses due to a weird law. I wonder how much that contributes to the waitlist.
- ahaferburg 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

Many years ago I took a course in high performance driving. One of the takeaways is the advice to always be predictable. Being predictable means the other drivers can avoid you. Being unpredictable means they'll hit you. Give the other drivers a chance to avoid hitting you. I bring this up because Drivers' Ed never mentioned it. For an obvious example, using turn signals is being predictable. Not passing on the right is being predictable. Driving at the same speed as the rest of the traffic is being predictable. There are all kinds of traffic laws, but most boil down to just be predictable. For the cyclists, please don't draft behind some unwitting driver. (Yes, I see this now and then.) Please don't randomly weave in and out of traffic. And please don't bike across the crosswalk, walk your bike across it. Drivers cannot react fast enough to a bike darting across the road. And when the bike lane does a Kriss-Kross across a car lane, stay alive and don't do it in front of traffic.

sebnukem2 4y ago
If a driver cannot react fast enough to someone on a crosswalk, then the driver is driving too fast. Cyclists don't throw themselves right in front of a moving car. It's a lot safer to cross on a crosswalk, even on a bike.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > If a driver cannot react fast enough to someone on a crosswalk, then the driver is driving too fast. You can be going 25 and a cyclist veering into the crosswalk right in front of you is going to get hit. So will one appearing in the crosswalk where a parked truck on the side of the road is blocking the view to the right of the crosswalk. Those caused the fatal crashes I know of, and the drivers in both were not charged. > Cyclists don't throw themselves right in front of a moving car. Yes, they do. > It's a lot safer to cross on a crosswalk, even on a bike. The safe way to cross on a crosswalk is to wait expectantly until the traffic sees you and stops, and then cross. There is no other safe way. Remember, you mom prolly told you not to run across the street, but walk. Same reason.
nicbou 4y ago
"Don't be polite, be predictable"

rjdagost 4y ago

One of the big differences between the US and Europe in this regard is the much larger proportion of bicyclists in Europe. In Europe, the larger number of bicyclists trains you as a driver to always be on the lookout for them. Driving past a bicyclist in the US is a much rarer event. Drivers should of course always be vigilant for anything in their way, but as a practical matter it's easier to mentally drift off when bicyclists are much less common.

greggman3 4y ago
This appears a choice by Europe or at least some cities. Pictures of how bike unfriendly it was in the 70s https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in-the-1970s-what-changed/ https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in...

renewiltord 4y ago

Owning an SUV, a truck, a bicycle, and a motorcycle I can tell you that there is this huge difference between a motorist incident and a cyclist incident. If you don't have a VIN you're not in the system and you can die and it won't matter. Being legible to the state is important.

bigbacaloa 4y ago

In much of Europe stoplights are on the near side of na intersection and there are stoplights exiting intersections as well as entering. This facilitates integration of pedestrian and bike lanes/crossing (often these are separate). Also there are no left turns across traffic, instead there are roundabouts, and these are more easily integrated with cyclist lanes. Finally, of course, cars are smaller (on the the other hand, so are streets).

jrockway 4y ago
Not Just Bikes did a video about the timing/switching algorithm of European traffic lights recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY They look amazing. Wish we had them here in the US.
watwut 4y ago
> In much of Europe stoplights are on the near side of na intersection and there are stoplights exiting intersections as well as entering. This facilitates integration of pedestrian and bike lanes/crossing (often these are separate). How, I dont see it?

up2isomorphism 4y ago

The majority of USA does not even have the minimum design that allows bike safety and nothing can be done about it since building anything now is almost impossible. It is just foolish to insist a life style that doesn’t have a infrastructural support.

dclowd9901 4y ago

cycomanic 4y ago

> the driver said he was headed to Starbucks and estimated he was going 55 mph. The speed limit was 40. And the driver was not charged with a crime? In many countries if you drive over the speed limit and kill someone that's a manslaughter charge. Several countries always have a driver at fault if there is an accident with a bike or car.

phendrenad2 4y ago
I think you found the real problem with this stretch of road - the DA hates bicyclists.

black_13 4y ago

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

All the roads on Long Island suck for bicyclists. No shoulders, for the most part (and when there are shoulders, they are wastelands of rubble, trash, and dead varmints). Also, Long Island drivers are, to put it charitably, downright terrible. There was a story, a few years ago, about a local town official, that said that people just shouldn’t ride bikes on Long Island. It went viral, and he was pilloried in the Court of Public Opinion, but he was actually probably right. It has nothing to do with bicyclists being a problem, and everything to do with Long Island being the problem.

deleted 4y ago

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LatteLazy 4y ago

I am always surprised by this: I live in the UK, our roads are narrow and winding because they are basically medieval (or Roman even) tracks that have been gradually upgraded. It sort or makes sense to me that cycling here is dangerous. But in my experience US roads are very large with many lanes and lanes much wider than cars. It feels like it should be easy to (a) avoid other road uses and (b) take some space to give them dedicated spaces.

wil421 4y ago
As a comparison I looked up London and they had 81 deaths in 2019. 75 pedestrians and 6 cyclists killed. Still less than NYC. Paris had 16 pedestrian deaths in 2019. I think 58 in Rome in 2018.

ahaferburg 4y ago

If you're interested in topics like city design and infrastructure, walkability, cycling, people on foot or bicycle not getting killed by cars, I highly recommend the Youtube channel Not Just Bikes. It was created by a Canadian who emigrated to the Netherlands, with interesting and entertaining videos, often comparing the situation in North America to European (mostly Dutch) cities. Very bingeable. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0intLFzLaudFG-xAvUEO-A

BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 4y ago

NEVER RIDE A BIKE IN A CROSSWALK or a scooter for that matter. I've seen cyclists blast across crosswalks in the dark and fortunately my ABS prevented me from hitting them. And there's been a number of near misses with cyclists blasting down a sidewalk into the crosswalk when I'm turning left. Space does not permit me to catalog all the scenarios of [usually] failed cyclist suicides. Cyclists see more of the environment immediately around than drivers whose eyes are typically 6-7' behind the front bumper. Unfortunately cyclists are mostly unaware that a driver can not see as much of the surroundings as can a cyclist. Driver perception is adequate in the case of a pedestrian approaching and entering a crosswalk at walking speed of 3 mph. It does not work for a cyclist at 15-25 mph = 30' per second 20-50' away from the curb. Earlier on I commuted some 15 km each way by bike, but as I got older I was more choosy of my routes and eventually switched to roller blading opposite traffic so I could hop the curb when necessary. Stupidity in drivers, cyclists and pedestrians will always be with us. Nobody will do anything to miss you if they don't see you.

decafninja 4y ago

It boggles my mind how much the HN crowd utterly despises cars. I could never imagine myself living without a car, even in cities/countries with amazing public transit (NYC is not such a place). I am 100% in agreement for banning cars from dense urban cores. But my impression is that people here want to go much, much, further than that, ranging from exterminating the concept of suburbs all the way to exterminating all privately owned cars ensuring the only way to visit Grandma‘s farm is via bus.