3 ms·

Citizenship is a totally separate topic.

jelliclesfarm 4y ago
I agree. But you are claiming that the number of years having domicile in a location is an entitlement despite not being able to afford cost of living. How is that relevant/not irrelevant?
- notch656a 4y ago
  I'm unsure of the reasoning, but one plausible reasoning is that if one has been paying taxes to the most local unit (state/local) for the past 10 years or whatever by working at whole foods and buying things with his productive labor, that means that both he may have paid in enough society can help him and still break even, as well as provide some historical basis to presume the investment to help him get housed will pay in dividends in continuing taxes down the line. One might argue if someone just shows up from afar in SF, you get them housed and their life back together, there's comparably (to the 10 year person) little reason to believe they're gonna stick around to pay back into the system and produce the kind of ROI on the localities investment that whole foods guy may give I'm not saying this is a "good" argument per se, but it would one that would make sense to me. If someone put a gun to my head and said "figure out how to use taxes, and only taxes, to help the homeless" I would probably rank cities by unskilled income : cost of living, then build rehabilitation facilities in those areas and use a nationwide distributed tax model to offer people voluntary relocation and rehabilitation in partnership with local businesses which is jointly funded nationwide to avoid the situation seen such as in SF where the minute you give the homeless more benefits you get them coming from all around to benefit. If you give homeless benefits just for showing up it's gonna end up as a race to the bottom, IMO, where whoever is the most 'helpful' sees a landslide of immigration of people needing help, which isn't practical when the load isn't shared. SF locals are probably not going to want to be the ones known as the person that foots the rehab bill for anyone who hitchhikes to town and then merrily walks away never to pay it back as soon as they get their heads on straight.
  - jelliclesfarm 4y ago
    This person has enough money for a year’s rent in the bank and is still sleeping on the streets. That was my read. I have to confess that I am a little confused.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      I confess I am also still a little confused as to how one can involuntarily be on the streets with a year's rent in the bank. In most cities that in connection with employment is at least enough to buy and maintain a van or something that runs well enough to not run afoul of the 72 hour street parking rules. I presume there are either ideological factors or some unique unusual personal situation at play. One wild idea is perhaps ideological opposition to landlords and belief that the automobile is bad for the earth, but that's completely speculative.
      - olivermarks 4y ago
        1/ There are no rooms to rent 2/ He doesn't drive and doesn't want to live in a vehicle 3/ He is not 100% mentally I suspect, and I would hate to see this functioning adult deteriorate on the streets
        jelliclesfarm 4y ago
        It’s a difficult situation for sure. Fwiw, anything that requires compassion and understanding, I am loathe to rely on state/govt for it. Here is where community needs to come together to find creative solutions. Some suggestions: 1. Move to north bay or another area where it is more affordable. Whole Foods probably will allow transfers. 2. Can he upskill? Certificate courses or some such? 3. Can he get or can someone pitch in to get him a gym membership? 4. Will he be able to rent a room? 5. Room mate situation with someone? 6. Can he take driving lessons and obtain a license? Perhaps you can help him get a license or a gym membership? If he has the money, it’s a small amount. Stability and community is very crucial for housing vulnerable folks. There can be other jobs like house sitting or caretaking or pet sitting. There are many jobs online that also pay these days. Best of luck to your friend.

I agree. But you are claiming that the number of years having domicile in a location is an entitlement despite not being able to afford cost of living. How is that relevant/not irrelevant?

notch656a 4y ago
I'm unsure of the reasoning, but one plausible reasoning is that if one has been paying taxes to the most local unit (state/local) for the past 10 years or whatever by working at whole foods and buying things with his productive labor, that means that both he may have paid in enough society can help him and still break even, as well as provide some historical basis to presume the investment to help him get housed will pay in dividends in continuing taxes down the line. One might argue if someone just shows up from afar in SF, you get them housed and their life back together, there's comparably (to the 10 year person) little reason to believe they're gonna stick around to pay back into the system and produce the kind of ROI on the localities investment that whole foods guy may give I'm not saying this is a "good" argument per se, but it would one that would make sense to me. If someone put a gun to my head and said "figure out how to use taxes, and only taxes, to help the homeless" I would probably rank cities by unskilled income : cost of living, then build rehabilitation facilities in those areas and use a nationwide distributed tax model to offer people voluntary relocation and rehabilitation in partnership with local businesses which is jointly funded nationwide to avoid the situation seen such as in SF where the minute you give the homeless more benefits you get them coming from all around to benefit. If you give homeless benefits just for showing up it's gonna end up as a race to the bottom, IMO, where whoever is the most 'helpful' sees a landslide of immigration of people needing help, which isn't practical when the load isn't shared. SF locals are probably not going to want to be the ones known as the person that foots the rehab bill for anyone who hitchhikes to town and then merrily walks away never to pay it back as soon as they get their heads on straight.
- jelliclesfarm 4y ago
  This person has enough money for a year’s rent in the bank and is still sleeping on the streets. That was my read. I have to confess that I am a little confused.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    I confess I am also still a little confused as to how one can involuntarily be on the streets with a year's rent in the bank. In most cities that in connection with employment is at least enough to buy and maintain a van or something that runs well enough to not run afoul of the 72 hour street parking rules. I presume there are either ideological factors or some unique unusual personal situation at play. One wild idea is perhaps ideological opposition to landlords and belief that the automobile is bad for the earth, but that's completely speculative.
    - olivermarks 4y ago
      1/ There are no rooms to rent 2/ He doesn't drive and doesn't want to live in a vehicle 3/ He is not 100% mentally I suspect, and I would hate to see this functioning adult deteriorate on the streets
      - jelliclesfarm 4y ago
        It’s a difficult situation for sure. Fwiw, anything that requires compassion and understanding, I am loathe to rely on state/govt for it. Here is where community needs to come together to find creative solutions. Some suggestions: 1. Move to north bay or another area where it is more affordable. Whole Foods probably will allow transfers. 2. Can he upskill? Certificate courses or some such? 3. Can he get or can someone pitch in to get him a gym membership? 4. Will he be able to rent a room? 5. Room mate situation with someone? 6. Can he take driving lessons and obtain a license? Perhaps you can help him get a license or a gym membership? If he has the money, it’s a small amount. Stability and community is very crucial for housing vulnerable folks. There can be other jobs like house sitting or caretaking or pet sitting. There are many jobs online that also pay these days. Best of luck to your friend.