4 ms·

Because no one's throwing around "your father is a prostitute" as an insult.

tablespoon 4y ago
> Because no one's throwing around "your father is a prostitute" as an insult. There's all kinds of things that people insult men/fathers for that they wouldn't use for women/mothers (e.g. strength, financial success, etc). It's just gender roles, not generalized contempt for women (and going that far is probably just politically motivated exaggeration).
- npteljes 4y ago
  I think the contempt is there, because we're talking about someone's parent, and for some reason, all cultures (that I know of) picked the mother as the one being out of line. As in, when there's someone that's out of line, that has to be the woman. If this would be random, or balanced, we'd curse at others like your father is a deadbeat, or that your father's sperm is weak, and therefore you are weak, or things like that. Yet that just doesn't come up much. Edit: I do get your point though. It's not as straightforward as I implied. In fact I think that it's a complex, interwoven system, which comes up unfair for everyone. But I do observe a general hatred toward women, and if something like this curse comes up, I can't help but think that the two are in connection.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > I think the contempt is there, because we're talking about someone's parent, and for some reason, all cultures (that I know of) picked the mother as the one being out of line. As in, when there's someone that's out of line, that has to be the woman. There's definitely contempt there, but just for the person being insulted. I think you're analyzing those kinds of insults using the wrong framework. It doesn't have much to do with women as a class, but rather with the relationship with the insulted person to his mother. Insulting someone's mother will probably get under someone's skin more than insulting their father, because (especially historically) they probably have a warmer/closer relationship with their mother due to gender roles around child-rearing.
    - npteljes 4y ago
      That's a very interesting point! Thanks for bringing it up.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    > because we're talking about someone's parent, and for some reason, all cultures (that I know of) picked the mother as the one being out of line. As the saying goes: "mother's a fact; father's an opinion".
  - bearmode 4y ago
    >I think the contempt is there, because we're talking about someone's parent But I feel that this is more because the mother is the more 'revered' parent? People often hate their father, but it's far rarer for people to hate their mother. Cursing someone's mother is, to me, just a way to hurt someone by insulting the person they love the most. This of course would imply the exact opposite of what you're suggesting.
  - bandie91 4y ago
    cursing someone's mother not their father shows exacly the opposite attitude to women (mothers) to me: since the offender presumes people are more loving to their mothers than fathers, therefore expects that maledicting the mother hurt more.
reilly3000 4y ago
True. In fact we’ve made televised “I’m not the father” dancing into a national pastime. The patriarchy mentality our norms are built upon includes blaming women for everything ‘wrong’. Women are blamed for premarital sex. Men are celebrated for their scores. Women are paid less yet have less leisure time. They are the first to blame if anything goes wrong with children, including just bringing them into public spaces. Men aren’t expected to be responsible parents, and usually aren’t primary caregivers. Women are the butt of jokes, and are constantly told they aren’t funny. Some men are actively campaigning to make women property again. Women are forced to give birth for anyone that inseminates them without exception in many jurisdictions now. Not all women are sex workers, but the fact is that female sex workers (sex entrepreneurs?!) are generally disrespected by patriarchs and their women. That internalized distain comes out in a variety of ways, but quite materially as well (ie bank policy and regulations). Male sex workers are envied by other males. “I’d love that job”.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Do yourself a favor and read "Self-Made Man". It's obvious you're only seeing this from one side of the coin and lack the perspective of the other side in some kind of crusade. Both sexes have their problems and the status quo causes stigmas for both. To claim women are uniquely seen as "lesser beings" in a developed world is horribly naïve.
  - npteljes 4y ago
    >To claim women are uniquely seen as "lesser beings" in a developed world is horribly naïve. Not really. The developed world barely raised a few generations since women can vote. This is not saying men don't have problems - but the field is still very often tilted against women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism
  - ngetchell 4y ago
    Both have their problems but acting like the problems are symmetrical is laughable. How long ago were women in America able to apply for a mortgage?
  - 4y ago

> Because no one's throwing around "your father is a prostitute" as an insult. There's all kinds of things that people insult men/fathers for that they wouldn't use for women/mothers (e.g. strength, financial success, etc). It's just gender roles, not generalized contempt for women (and going that far is probably just politically motivated exaggeration).

npteljes 4y ago
I think the contempt is there, because we're talking about someone's parent, and for some reason, all cultures (that I know of) picked the mother as the one being out of line. As in, when there's someone that's out of line, that has to be the woman. If this would be random, or balanced, we'd curse at others like your father is a deadbeat, or that your father's sperm is weak, and therefore you are weak, or things like that. Yet that just doesn't come up much. Edit: I do get your point though. It's not as straightforward as I implied. In fact I think that it's a complex, interwoven system, which comes up unfair for everyone. But I do observe a general hatred toward women, and if something like this curse comes up, I can't help but think that the two are in connection.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > I think the contempt is there, because we're talking about someone's parent, and for some reason, all cultures (that I know of) picked the mother as the one being out of line. As in, when there's someone that's out of line, that has to be the woman. There's definitely contempt there, but just for the person being insulted. I think you're analyzing those kinds of insults using the wrong framework. It doesn't have much to do with women as a class, but rather with the relationship with the insulted person to his mother. Insulting someone's mother will probably get under someone's skin more than insulting their father, because (especially historically) they probably have a warmer/closer relationship with their mother due to gender roles around child-rearing.
  - npteljes 4y ago
    That's a very interesting point! Thanks for bringing it up.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  > because we're talking about someone's parent, and for some reason, all cultures (that I know of) picked the mother as the one being out of line. As the saying goes: "mother's a fact; father's an opinion".
- bearmode 4y ago
  >I think the contempt is there, because we're talking about someone's parent But I feel that this is more because the mother is the more 'revered' parent? People often hate their father, but it's far rarer for people to hate their mother. Cursing someone's mother is, to me, just a way to hurt someone by insulting the person they love the most. This of course would imply the exact opposite of what you're suggesting.
- bandie91 4y ago
  cursing someone's mother not their father shows exacly the opposite attitude to women (mothers) to me: since the offender presumes people are more loving to their mothers than fathers, therefore expects that maledicting the mother hurt more.

reilly3000 4y ago

True. In fact we’ve made televised “I’m not the father” dancing into a national pastime. The patriarchy mentality our norms are built upon includes blaming women for everything ‘wrong’. Women are blamed for premarital sex. Men are celebrated for their scores. Women are paid less yet have less leisure time. They are the first to blame if anything goes wrong with children, including just bringing them into public spaces. Men aren’t expected to be responsible parents, and usually aren’t primary caregivers. Women are the butt of jokes, and are constantly told they aren’t funny. Some men are actively campaigning to make women property again. Women are forced to give birth for anyone that inseminates them without exception in many jurisdictions now. Not all women are sex workers, but the fact is that female sex workers (sex entrepreneurs?!) are generally disrespected by patriarchs and their women. That internalized distain comes out in a variety of ways, but quite materially as well (ie bank policy and regulations). Male sex workers are envied by other males. “I’d love that job”.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Do yourself a favor and read "Self-Made Man". It's obvious you're only seeing this from one side of the coin and lack the perspective of the other side in some kind of crusade. Both sexes have their problems and the status quo causes stigmas for both. To claim women are uniquely seen as "lesser beings" in a developed world is horribly naïve.
- npteljes 4y ago
  >To claim women are uniquely seen as "lesser beings" in a developed world is horribly naïve. Not really. The developed world barely raised a few generations since women can vote. This is not saying men don't have problems - but the field is still very often tilted against women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism
- ngetchell 4y ago
  Both have their problems but acting like the problems are symmetrical is laughable. How long ago were women in America able to apply for a mortgage?
- 4y ago