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Thanks for the reply! Indeed it brings something to the table that I have not paid enough attention in my previous comment. I acknowledge that more often there

by WHA8m 4y ago

Thanks for the reply! Indeed it brings something to the table that I have not paid enough attention in my previous comment. I acknowledge that more often there are updated versions of previous arguments that hold their content 'better' and put them in meaningful context. I wonder where the line is wether we call that 'history of philosophy' or not. Nevertheless this is how students at universities spent most of their time learning philosophy. They rarely read whole original works, mostly just relevant paragraphs and summaries. You already touched on this in your last sentences, but it's a stronger point that you seem to make out of it. 'Truth' doesn't really exist in this space. There is no 'right' and 'wrong' that hasn't been proven opposite. What you propose here can, if not cautious, lead to 'philosophy on rails'. People will turn into 'intellectuals' (whatever this is), but not into 'philosophers' (whatever this is). So even though I agree with you, this can't be the only approach to philosophy. Important here is the differentiation between 'doing philosophy' and the 'content of philosophy'. Regarding the second one, this might be a somewhat viable approach. But I highly disagree with phrases like: "philosophy should not be presented/ offered [in a certain way]". This leads to dogmatism. Sure, strong point shall be emphasized and weak spots visible, but implying there is something absolute here surely is to be avoided. But you touched on that in your last sentences anyways.

PeterisP 4y ago
I'm probably drawing on the distinction between "making knowledge" and "using knowledge", which is generally done by different people, and with the implied assertion that the added value for any field is only to the extent that it enables the latter. The people who make new physics and the people who learn and apply physics (e.g. engineers) are two separate groups, and physics is valuable mostly because it provides knowledge that enables the latter group of people to do stuff, and we want that knowledge to be packaged in a useful, usable way for those who don't do physics research. In a similar manner, there are the distinct groups of people who do philosophy and people who apply (or should apply) philosophy, including most scientists of other fields, and in my opinion the value of philosophy as a field is highly contingent on those who do philosophy being able to package the conclusions in a way that is useful and usable for people who are not going to "do philosophy". Sure, at some point dogmas need to be reviewed and changed - but until they are (by the people who "do philosophy") there should be some reasonable set of the current understanding of philosophy ("current dogma"?) available for the "users of philosophy", and we should be able to compare and see that the current state of this philosophical understanding is better than some centuries ago, that an "user of philosophy" who reads the "content of philosophy" from the era of Nietzsche will be worse off than reading the current "content of philosophy". It does not need to imply that it's the absolute truth forever, but there needs to be a clear understanding of what is the "closest thing to the truth as far as humanity knows right now"; like in physics we clearly know that the current theories are not the final complete truth (for example, due to incompatibilities of general relativity and quantum physics) and the truth has to be slightly different, but we can and do have an effective dogma which physicists can teach to non-physicists about how physics is to the best of our current understanding - and I'd expect the same from philosophy.

by WHA8m 4y ago

PeterisP 4y ago

I'm probably drawing on the distinction between "making knowledge" and "using knowledge", which is generally done by different people, and with the implied assertion that the added value for any field is only to the extent that it enables the latter. The people who make new physics and the people who learn and apply physics (e.g. engineers) are two separate groups, and physics is valuable mostly because it provides knowledge that enables the latter group of people to do stuff, and we want that knowledge to be packaged in a useful, usable way for those who don't do physics research. In a similar manner, there are the distinct groups of people who do philosophy and people who apply (or should apply) philosophy, including most scientists of other fields, and in my opinion the value of philosophy as a field is highly contingent on those who do philosophy being able to package the conclusions in a way that is useful and usable for people who are not going to "do philosophy". Sure, at some point dogmas need to be reviewed and changed - but until they are (by the people who "do philosophy") there should be some reasonable set of the current understanding of philosophy ("current dogma"?) available for the "users of philosophy", and we should be able to compare and see that the current state of this philosophical understanding is better than some centuries ago, that an "user of philosophy" who reads the "content of philosophy" from the era of Nietzsche will be worse off than reading the current "content of philosophy". It does not need to imply that it's the absolute truth forever, but there needs to be a clear understanding of what is the "closest thing to the truth as far as humanity knows right now"; like in physics we clearly know that the current theories are not the final complete truth (for example, due to incompatibilities of general relativity and quantum physics) and the truth has to be slightly different, but we can and do have an effective dogma which physicists can teach to non-physicists about how physics is to the best of our current understanding - and I'd expect the same from philosophy.