4 ms·

> Apple can’t just pack up and go to a competitor No, but they can use their massive war chest and expertise to ramp up a competitor or become one themselves o

> Apple can’t just pack up and go to a competitor No, but they can use their massive war chest and expertise to ramp up a competitor or become one themselves over the next decade or two. With massive corporate ships like TSMC and Apple it takes a long time to change course but they work on longer timelines so a big negative shift over a long time scale is an alarming signal.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
If anyone can do it, it's Apple. Remember when there was no way that Apple would ever be able to move away from Moto? Remember when there was no way that Apple would ever be able to move away from IBM/Power? Remember when there was no way that Apple would ever be able to move away from Intel?
- GeekyBear 4y ago
  Remember when there was no way Apple would shift their SOC production away from Samsung?
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Building your own semiconductor fab with good yelds that are profitable is monumentally more complex than all of those things combined. Why do you think only Intel and Samsung are the ones left at the cutting edge anf even they are struggling to keep up with TSMC? If you think Apple can just buy their way into fab success, you don't understand the complexities of semiconductor manufacturing.
  - foobiekr 4y ago
    What apple really brings to the table isn’t really plain cash though capital investment helps it’s guaranteed capacity.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    > you don't understand the complexities of semiconductor manufacturing. Eh. Might know a thing or two, but I'm sure you know what you're talking about.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      Please enlighten us.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
        Nah, that's OK. Have a great day!
  - nyokodo 4y ago
    > If you think Apple can just buy their way into fab success No one is saying they can "just" buy their way into fab success. However, I think they do have the cash and clout to make it happen on a decade long timeline, possibly in league with Intel/Samsung or the US Government, or all three, etc. Obviously that would be enormously costly and risky, but any move to eventually do so is a threat to TSMC, so even if they don't do it they have a negotiating position with TSMC right now because the relationship is enormously valuable.
hollerith 4y ago
>over the next decade or two Sure, but how are they going to produce iPads and iPhones before then? They can't have more than a year's worth of CPUs stockpiled.
- nyokodo 4y ago
  > Sure, but how are they going to produce iPads and iPhones before then? They can't have more than a year's worth of CPUs stockpiled. From TSMC chips. Basically if TSMC insists on raising prices to levels above what Apple is prepared to pay they can threaten to move away from TSMC eventually. If TSMC refuses to budge then Apple will have to pay the higher prices in the short to medium term and then expend capital to not be beholden to TSMC over the long term. So then the question is does TSMC value the relationship over the long term or do they value the higher prices in the short to medium term? That could be Apple's negotiating position.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

If anyone can do it, it's Apple. Remember when there was no way that Apple would ever be able to move away from Moto? Remember when there was no way that Apple would ever be able to move away from IBM/Power? Remember when there was no way that Apple would ever be able to move away from Intel?

GeekyBear 4y ago
Remember when there was no way Apple would shift their SOC production away from Samsung?
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Building your own semiconductor fab with good yelds that are profitable is monumentally more complex than all of those things combined. Why do you think only Intel and Samsung are the ones left at the cutting edge anf even they are struggling to keep up with TSMC? If you think Apple can just buy their way into fab success, you don't understand the complexities of semiconductor manufacturing.
- foobiekr 4y ago
  What apple really brings to the table isn’t really plain cash though capital investment helps it’s guaranteed capacity.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  > you don't understand the complexities of semiconductor manufacturing. Eh. Might know a thing or two, but I'm sure you know what you're talking about.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    Please enlighten us.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
      Nah, that's OK. Have a great day!
- nyokodo 4y ago
  > If you think Apple can just buy their way into fab success No one is saying they can "just" buy their way into fab success. However, I think they do have the cash and clout to make it happen on a decade long timeline, possibly in league with Intel/Samsung or the US Government, or all three, etc. Obviously that would be enormously costly and risky, but any move to eventually do so is a threat to TSMC, so even if they don't do it they have a negotiating position with TSMC right now because the relationship is enormously valuable.

hollerith 4y ago

>over the next decade or two Sure, but how are they going to produce iPads and iPhones before then? They can't have more than a year's worth of CPUs stockpiled.

nyokodo 4y ago
> Sure, but how are they going to produce iPads and iPhones before then? They can't have more than a year's worth of CPUs stockpiled. From TSMC chips. Basically if TSMC insists on raising prices to levels above what Apple is prepared to pay they can threaten to move away from TSMC eventually. If TSMC refuses to budge then Apple will have to pay the higher prices in the short to medium term and then expend capital to not be beholden to TSMC over the long term. So then the question is does TSMC value the relationship over the long term or do they value the higher prices in the short to medium term? That could be Apple's negotiating position.