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As someone with diving experience I laughed at parent comment's "anyone with scuba gear" assertion too - a classic example of "I'm an expert at everything becau
by KennyBlanken 4y ago
As someone with diving experience I laughed at parent comment's "anyone with scuba gear" assertion too - a classic example of "I'm an expert at everything because I'm a smart programmer who makes $200k a year" arrogance that is endemic here - but you're right next to them.
- The timing of the explosions doesn't require "multiple coordinated teams." It requires timers. Or, as is common with naval mines, an acoustic arming/triggering signal.
- Commercial diving happens several times deeper than 80m. Hundreds of meters, in fact.
- Saturation diving techniques mean a crew could be brought to the working depth inside the ship's chamber, transferred to a diving bell, dropped down to the pipeline, do their work, go back into the bell, be brought up into the ship, transferred into the ship's decompression chamber, and decompress.
- You're assuming such an operation would be based from the surface. If a nation-state was involved, who says they arrived or departed by surface ship? The Jimmy Carter is for exactly this sort of stuff. It was practically a sport for the USSR and US to tap undersea communications cables. We had the capability to do that without being undetected (including from systems that are designed to detect faults and tampering, but also deal with the cable armoring, as well as avoid very high voltages used to power in-line amplifiers) more than fifty years ago...but you think slapping some explosives on the side of a pipe is technically challenging to a nation-state, or even a commercial diving company that does oilfield work?
- You assume that explosives were planted by divers, and not, say, a submersible (see: Jimmy Carter) or ROV. In fact, you're assuming explosives were planted, and someone didn't use a smart torpedo of some sort.
One thing, though: I agree with others that it seems unlikely Russia would do this to themselves when, you know, they can just not supply gas into the pipeline.
One possibility: after Russia threatened using nuclear devices, both pipelines were blown up was either done to send a message - or as direct punishment for the fairly unprecedented threat to use nuclear weapons.
It also has the side effect of taking any 'heat' off EU politicians to cave if energy prices soar and/or if people freeze in their homes. Russian gas is for the moment very much off the table. If those pipelines can be repaired, it won't happen overnight, or cheaply.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago> In fact, you're assuming explosives were planted, and someone didn't use a smart torpedo of some sort. I think planted explosives makes more sense; it would leave less/no identifiable debris behind.
- bombcar 4y agoIf it WAS Russia or Germany, inserting the explosives in a pig INTO the pipeline from their end and letting it cruise down to the depths would be easier (maybe).
- quonn 4y ago> it seems unlikely Russia would do this to themselves when, you know, they can just not supply gas into the pipeline. The idea is that this gets everyone to think about the security of other pipelines while being less risky for Russia. And gas prices rose right afterwards.
- rendall 4y agoAs the endemically arrogant programmer, I sincerely appreciate your candor! I was hoping that a scuba expert would come by and help out, so thank you. After all, the fastest way to get a good answer on the internet is to post a wrong answer. Just, as a minor point, I was responding to assertions that it could only be Russia because only a submarine crew could have done it.
- theironhammer 4y agoAnd didn't these explosions happen the same day it was announced that the pipeline from Norway to Poland is now open? USA likely did it to send a message to Putin and AfD (who talking about reviving it) that Nordstream is officially dead, now and forever. USA will be supplying the oil and gas to Europe, not Russia.
- bitL 4y agoI fail to see how obliterating 1000 miles of pipes, writing off 10s of billions as a punishment for a nuclear threat gets us away from using nukes. To me it seems like it brings us much closer to using them.
- SanjayMehta 4y agoThe Biden regime is not exactly stocked with functional brain cells.