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I just hope it wasn't the US. That would be a devastating breach of trust for Germany and would backfire badly if it came out. I'm rooting for the Danish anarc

I just hope it wasn't the US. That would be a devastating breach of trust for Germany and would backfire badly if it came out. I'm rooting for the Danish anarchists. You basically just need underwater explosives and a boat. You hang the explosives on a long rope, throw it over board like an anchor, and drag it into the pipeline. When you hit the pipeline, you detonate the explosives.

rendall 4y ago
Don't worry. It wasn't the US. Not really our style. Sure, the CIA pulls dirty tricks, but those are quiet, in-the-shadows skullduggery where no one's paying attention. CIA doesn't do big and loud where other Americans can see it. Plus, motivations are wrong. The US catastrophically ends European energy dependence on Russia so that... it can compete with the Middle East and Russia and Canada on a more equal footing? Yeah, no. The US is not that desperate for cash.
- ktfelt 4y ago
  There is Stuxnet and its predecessor, which blew up a pipeline! https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/reagan-approved-plan-to-sabotage-soviets/a9184eff-47fd-402e-beb2-63970851e130/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/r... The U.S. motivation is that it has tried to shut down energy trades between the Soviet Union/Russia and Germany for more than 50 years.
  - DangerousPie 4y ago
    But those trades were already shut down and not coming back anytime soon. If Germany had refused to join sanctions and was still using NS1 + NS2 at full capacity right now then maybe there would have been some motivation to force the issue. But why now, when the pipelines weren't even active?
    - pbak 4y ago
      You are analyzing this too much in the short term. These pipelines were meant to last for decades. The pain of seeing a quarter of your industry close for lack of energy might have easily bent the will of Germans and others after this winter. All political announcements about replacing Russian gas before 2027 at the earliest were a pipe dream (pun intended)for anybody with any actual knowledge of the industry. Even now, a large portion of what was supposedly bought elsewhere was just repackaged and re-originated at the port of loading, but actually Russian gas - hence part of the price hike going to a chain of middlemen.
    - theironhammer 4y ago
      AfD were hinting at reviving it. That would possibly be a popular proposal with the German public after this winter. Might get them a lot of votes. Blowing it up guarantees Nordstream is forever dead. The same day a new pipeline was announced as open from Norway to Poland. Didn't a Polish EU MP tweet "Thank-you USA" when the news broke of the explosions.
  - imhoguy 4y ago
    There is criticism regarding the quoted story, the main is that Soviets at the time mainly used analog/pneumatic and manual control systems, not digital software. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss
  - mhh__ 4y ago
    Stuxnet isn't a great example precisely because they never dropped any bombs even though they could've arguably gotten away with it. It's worth keeping in mind that the pipeline was also pretty much dormant anyway, the official nord stream data has it that flow collapsed around june, down to exactly 0 (by their books, there was still pressure in the pipe) kWh per day by September.
- diimdeep 4y ago
  Strategic Forecasting Inc. STRATFOR - US 'Private CIA' firm disagrees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7G3wIzBhs&t=9s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7G3wIzBhs&t=9s
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  Dude... Prez Biden said the U.S. will stop it. Victoria Nuland said the same. There was Baltops 22, which just happened to 'practice' dearming underwater mines, as mentioned in local media. Also mentioned in local media, the last three ships of the U.S. Navy passed by there just a week before the explosions, with one especially suited for such operations. Also one U.S. Navy Helo flying and circling exactly above the areas of the explosions, as shown by several tracking sites. Apply some 'Occams razor'... edit: Eyeroll
4ggr0 4y ago
> devastating breach of trust for Germany I think that already happened in at least one other instance. [0] [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...
rendall 4y ago
> You hang the explosives on a long rope, throw it over board like an anchor, and drag it into the pipeline. When you hit the pipeline, you detonate the explosives That's genius. The detonator would not have to be very sophisticated to magnetically detect the steel in the pipeline. "The gas pipes are made of 4.1 cm thick steel, which is protected by an 11 cm thick reinforced concrete shell" https://yle.fi/uutiset/74-20000414 https://yle.fi/uutiset/74-20000414 (in Finnish)

rendall 4y ago

Don't worry. It wasn't the US. Not really our style. Sure, the CIA pulls dirty tricks, but those are quiet, in-the-shadows skullduggery where no one's paying attention. CIA doesn't do big and loud where other Americans can see it. Plus, motivations are wrong. The US catastrophically ends European energy dependence on Russia so that... it can compete with the Middle East and Russia and Canada on a more equal footing? Yeah, no. The US is not that desperate for cash.

ktfelt 4y ago
There is Stuxnet and its predecessor, which blew up a pipeline! https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/reagan-approved-plan-to-sabotage-soviets/a9184eff-47fd-402e-beb2-63970851e130/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/r... The U.S. motivation is that it has tried to shut down energy trades between the Soviet Union/Russia and Germany for more than 50 years.
- DangerousPie 4y ago
  But those trades were already shut down and not coming back anytime soon. If Germany had refused to join sanctions and was still using NS1 + NS2 at full capacity right now then maybe there would have been some motivation to force the issue. But why now, when the pipelines weren't even active?
  - pbak 4y ago
    You are analyzing this too much in the short term. These pipelines were meant to last for decades. The pain of seeing a quarter of your industry close for lack of energy might have easily bent the will of Germans and others after this winter. All political announcements about replacing Russian gas before 2027 at the earliest were a pipe dream (pun intended)for anybody with any actual knowledge of the industry. Even now, a large portion of what was supposedly bought elsewhere was just repackaged and re-originated at the port of loading, but actually Russian gas - hence part of the price hike going to a chain of middlemen.
  - theironhammer 4y ago
    AfD were hinting at reviving it. That would possibly be a popular proposal with the German public after this winter. Might get them a lot of votes. Blowing it up guarantees Nordstream is forever dead. The same day a new pipeline was announced as open from Norway to Poland. Didn't a Polish EU MP tweet "Thank-you USA" when the news broke of the explosions.
- imhoguy 4y ago
  There is criticism regarding the quoted story, the main is that Soviets at the time mainly used analog/pneumatic and manual control systems, not digital software. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Abyss
- mhh__ 4y ago
  Stuxnet isn't a great example precisely because they never dropped any bombs even though they could've arguably gotten away with it. It's worth keeping in mind that the pipeline was also pretty much dormant anyway, the official nord stream data has it that flow collapsed around june, down to exactly 0 (by their books, there was still pressure in the pipe) kWh per day by September.
diimdeep 4y ago
Strategic Forecasting Inc. STRATFOR - US 'Private CIA' firm disagrees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7G3wIzBhs&t=9s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7G3wIzBhs&t=9s
LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
Dude... Prez Biden said the U.S. will stop it. Victoria Nuland said the same. There was Baltops 22, which just happened to 'practice' dearming underwater mines, as mentioned in local media. Also mentioned in local media, the last three ships of the U.S. Navy passed by there just a week before the explosions, with one especially suited for such operations. Also one U.S. Navy Helo flying and circling exactly above the areas of the explosions, as shown by several tracking sites. Apply some 'Occams razor'... edit: Eyeroll

4ggr0 4y ago

> devastating breach of trust for Germany I think that already happened in at least one other instance. [0] [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...

rendall 4y ago

> You hang the explosives on a long rope, throw it over board like an anchor, and drag it into the pipeline. When you hit the pipeline, you detonate the explosives That's genius. The detonator would not have to be very sophisticated to magnetically detect the steel in the pipeline. "The gas pipes are made of 4.1 cm thick steel, which is protected by an 11 cm thick reinforced concrete shell" https://yle.fi/uutiset/74-20000414 https://yle.fi/uutiset/74-20000414 (in Finnish)